Help for new .30-378
09-28-2003, 06:57 AM
#11
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,052
RE: Help for new .30-378
ak I guess you' re right. I assume that EVERYONE knows their own limits and that kids/new shooters have enough sense to realize that their gpaws old hand me down 30-30 aint the rifle for poppin bucks 400yds away on the otherside of a large foodplot. In TN I hunt large sections of land that has equally large fields and actually prefer staying out of the woods and " sneakin" in and out of strategically placed stands that command multiple long range views to cover the most ground. By doing so I have found that it actually encourages older bucks to frequent open areas during daylight hours as a result of not being disturbed and hearing and smelling " traffic" in the woods. So I guess my " need" for an extreme range cartridge was actually a necessity or evolvement vs a simple desire to " add another to the gunsafe" .
I grew up shooting and working in my brothers hunting/fishing shops and combined with lessons learned when I spent a year on the rifle team in ROTC while in high school, " bustin em out yonder" just works for me. But I admit, it takes equipment, planning and yes practice! All of my stands for such " assassin" techniques are either full on shooting houses or large ladder stands with proper shooting braces and they afford me and the rifle posistions that are essentially " benchrest quality" . Like I said, I have a 6x24x50 Swarovski that not only " brings em way up" with ease, it also makes holding steady a necessity vs a wish or option. But I STRONGLY feel that it alone is the key to hitting with such ease.
With all the variables being met and accounted for, to me my 24 power at 600 yds feels no different than my old 12 powers did at 300. BUT, notice I said " the variables being met and accounted for" . For the above mentioned " kids/new shooters" that means knowing what the gun is doing at that range well BEFORE trying to stick the bullets in fur covered targets! But I feel its also worth mentioning that todays technology is giving us hunters chances that we have NEVER before had or at least at a far more realistic level of affordability. My above mentioned brothers stores are dealers for all the normal guns as well as guns like my Lazzeroni. As a result we get to " see what they all do" . And amazingly enough we have found that it is simply a " day in day out" occurance to have a completely stock " off the shelf" Sako/Lazzeroni print 9 3/4" -10" groups at 1000yds!!! And those results were with 12power Zeiss' with milldots. I have not yet shot my 24 power at that range. Such performance even 10-15 years ago meant custom rifles and exceptional handloads all of which added to the bottom line.
I consider it, " continual evolution" in the sport itself and also in the tools of the trade as well. I firmly believe that anyone that wants to, can cleanly and consistently kill deer easily in the 400 yard range utilizing a small bit of " modern technology" and of course a lil bit of shooting skill. I have made such " shooters/marksmen" out of hunting buddies of mine that are realatively new to the sport. A good friend of mine since high school just started deer hunting with me 2 years ago. The first year he spent with me he had is grandads old Rem 06 742 with a simple 3x9 Vari X II on it. He killed a couple of deer inside of 300 and was happy. Lastyear right before season (as in the week before I carried him to MO) I pursuaded him to buy a Savage/Lazzeroni Patriot with 3x12x56 Kahles from my brothers place. A day on the range with him and now any deer of his choosing within a quarter of a mile of him is " goin for a ride in the truck" . He isnt an exceptional shooter, just " average" but with better technology in his hands he becomes more proficient (and in my mind, EFFICIENT). I am fully convinced that anyone else who so desires can have the exact same results and it wont cost a fortune to do it either! And in my mind that is the beauty of it. For many the old boundary of " realistic and reasonable" used to be in the 300 yard range. With just a few modifications in tackle, tactics, mindset and preparation, I am fully convinced that 500 yards is a very reasonable and realistic boundary for anyone reading this!
Thanks and good points AK!
RA
I grew up shooting and working in my brothers hunting/fishing shops and combined with lessons learned when I spent a year on the rifle team in ROTC while in high school, " bustin em out yonder" just works for me. But I admit, it takes equipment, planning and yes practice! All of my stands for such " assassin" techniques are either full on shooting houses or large ladder stands with proper shooting braces and they afford me and the rifle posistions that are essentially " benchrest quality" . Like I said, I have a 6x24x50 Swarovski that not only " brings em way up" with ease, it also makes holding steady a necessity vs a wish or option. But I STRONGLY feel that it alone is the key to hitting with such ease.
With all the variables being met and accounted for, to me my 24 power at 600 yds feels no different than my old 12 powers did at 300. BUT, notice I said " the variables being met and accounted for" . For the above mentioned " kids/new shooters" that means knowing what the gun is doing at that range well BEFORE trying to stick the bullets in fur covered targets! But I feel its also worth mentioning that todays technology is giving us hunters chances that we have NEVER before had or at least at a far more realistic level of affordability. My above mentioned brothers stores are dealers for all the normal guns as well as guns like my Lazzeroni. As a result we get to " see what they all do" . And amazingly enough we have found that it is simply a " day in day out" occurance to have a completely stock " off the shelf" Sako/Lazzeroni print 9 3/4" -10" groups at 1000yds!!! And those results were with 12power Zeiss' with milldots. I have not yet shot my 24 power at that range. Such performance even 10-15 years ago meant custom rifles and exceptional handloads all of which added to the bottom line.
I consider it, " continual evolution" in the sport itself and also in the tools of the trade as well. I firmly believe that anyone that wants to, can cleanly and consistently kill deer easily in the 400 yard range utilizing a small bit of " modern technology" and of course a lil bit of shooting skill. I have made such " shooters/marksmen" out of hunting buddies of mine that are realatively new to the sport. A good friend of mine since high school just started deer hunting with me 2 years ago. The first year he spent with me he had is grandads old Rem 06 742 with a simple 3x9 Vari X II on it. He killed a couple of deer inside of 300 and was happy. Lastyear right before season (as in the week before I carried him to MO) I pursuaded him to buy a Savage/Lazzeroni Patriot with 3x12x56 Kahles from my brothers place. A day on the range with him and now any deer of his choosing within a quarter of a mile of him is " goin for a ride in the truck" . He isnt an exceptional shooter, just " average" but with better technology in his hands he becomes more proficient (and in my mind, EFFICIENT). I am fully convinced that anyone else who so desires can have the exact same results and it wont cost a fortune to do it either! And in my mind that is the beauty of it. For many the old boundary of " realistic and reasonable" used to be in the 300 yard range. With just a few modifications in tackle, tactics, mindset and preparation, I am fully convinced that 500 yards is a very reasonable and realistic boundary for anyone reading this!
Thanks and good points AK!
RA
09-28-2003, 08:00 AM
#13
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 1,491
RE: Help for new .30-378
Hi Red,
Your friend is fortunate to have had someone that started him right. And it does make all the difference in the world. Just last summer we watched a young lady, (hadn' t turned 16 yet), put 10 rounds into less than 7" at 1000 yds with a custom 6.5X284. That day a friend of mine, (in his 60' s), decided to have a rifle built chambered for .338 Lapua, a project he is still working on.
With the correct equipment, good coaching, and practice what use to be out of the norm is now not only possible but also consistently achievable. And if you spend time in a gun shop you know from the " chat" that goes around that there are many " misinformed" people out there that do NOT do it correctly. That is what we need to address as a sport. If we don' t resolve these issues within our community...others outside our community (many with ulterior motives) will step in and do it for us! That is my concern.
I have killed enough chucks beyond 400 yards to know that it is not terribly difficult when done properly by a responsible person. But I have also shot enough at truly long ranges to know of the possible challenges. The young lady I referenced above could not have asked for more perfect conditions. An entirely calm day, mild temperatures...nearly no mirage, a known range, and an unmoving target. Spend any time in today' s sniper schools, or a modern KD range (particularly between 600 to 1000 yards) and you begin to understand what is truly possible. If you really want to know the limits...watch a good shooter behind a good rifle chambered for .50 BMG.
All I am saying is that we should be certain to qualify our comments, on this site or in any other forum, to insure that we are doing our sport " no harm" . In the very brief time I have been visiting this site I have noticed that the participants span the range of experience from completely " unknowing" to very experienced. For the benefit of those just learning, particularly those coming from a background not fortunate enough to have been raised in a knowledgeable environment, and in some cases even a " hostile towards firearms" upbringing, we should insure we qualify information that can otherwise be easily misunderstood.
I wholeheartedly concur that good equipment and good optics have made the task much more certain. (Even when hunting heavily wooded/brushy terrain for whitetails I always have a pair of 8X30 Swarovsky' s around my neck.) But even with the best equipment there is a minimum amount of skill, knowledge, and ethics, that are required. Just as an archer can exceed their limitations, (in spite of the vastly superior technology compared to just two decades ago), so can a rifleman. I agree with you wholeheartedly in that " positive mentoring" by those that do it properly is the best solution.
Continued good luck and enjoyment!
Your friend is fortunate to have had someone that started him right. And it does make all the difference in the world. Just last summer we watched a young lady, (hadn' t turned 16 yet), put 10 rounds into less than 7" at 1000 yds with a custom 6.5X284. That day a friend of mine, (in his 60' s), decided to have a rifle built chambered for .338 Lapua, a project he is still working on.
With the correct equipment, good coaching, and practice what use to be out of the norm is now not only possible but also consistently achievable. And if you spend time in a gun shop you know from the " chat" that goes around that there are many " misinformed" people out there that do NOT do it correctly. That is what we need to address as a sport. If we don' t resolve these issues within our community...others outside our community (many with ulterior motives) will step in and do it for us! That is my concern.
I have killed enough chucks beyond 400 yards to know that it is not terribly difficult when done properly by a responsible person. But I have also shot enough at truly long ranges to know of the possible challenges. The young lady I referenced above could not have asked for more perfect conditions. An entirely calm day, mild temperatures...nearly no mirage, a known range, and an unmoving target. Spend any time in today' s sniper schools, or a modern KD range (particularly between 600 to 1000 yards) and you begin to understand what is truly possible. If you really want to know the limits...watch a good shooter behind a good rifle chambered for .50 BMG.
All I am saying is that we should be certain to qualify our comments, on this site or in any other forum, to insure that we are doing our sport " no harm" . In the very brief time I have been visiting this site I have noticed that the participants span the range of experience from completely " unknowing" to very experienced. For the benefit of those just learning, particularly those coming from a background not fortunate enough to have been raised in a knowledgeable environment, and in some cases even a " hostile towards firearms" upbringing, we should insure we qualify information that can otherwise be easily misunderstood.
I wholeheartedly concur that good equipment and good optics have made the task much more certain. (Even when hunting heavily wooded/brushy terrain for whitetails I always have a pair of 8X30 Swarovsky' s around my neck.) But even with the best equipment there is a minimum amount of skill, knowledge, and ethics, that are required. Just as an archer can exceed their limitations, (in spite of the vastly superior technology compared to just two decades ago), so can a rifleman. I agree with you wholeheartedly in that " positive mentoring" by those that do it properly is the best solution.
Continued good luck and enjoyment!
09-28-2003, 03:30 PM
#14
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Bloomington mn usa
Posts: 43
RE: Help for new .30-378
Well the verdict is in as I have just gotten back from the range and this Accumark is by far the finest factory rifle that I have ever shot. Perfect trigger, kicks much less than my .45 cal. Knight and about the same as my 7mm mag. and shot 3" five shot groups at 300 yards with 180 barnes factory bullets. Thanks for all of your input and discussion.
