what would you do
02-27-2011, 08:27 PM
#1
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
what would you do
A few years back we had adt put in our house and garage. I had just went to bed and someone opened the garage setting off the alarm. I got up told my mom to call the police and went out side with my mossberg in hand loaded. A few here felt I made a mistake and should not have gone out and more so with my shotgun.
So since getting my carry permit this has come back to my head.
Lets say your in your house be it bed or watching TV, you hear a noise out side that should like glass breaking or say your door just opening. Since most are not just going to call the cops for every little noise
, would you go out to check it out, and would you take your carry gun IE handgun with your permit. Ok now lets say you do and you do end up on someone breaking into your car and end up using your weapon. Would it be a clean shoot or would you end up in jail, My understanding is in Indiana you would be ok, same as a I read florida law. Now sure if you do or say you saw someone went and got your gun and went out side it might go different, but I think it to be logical to go out side your house should you hear a odd noise and be it we carry everywere else take your gun. I would think it the same as if you came out of a store and someone was stealing your car or whatever
So since getting my carry permit this has come back to my head.
Lets say your in your house be it bed or watching TV, you hear a noise out side that should like glass breaking or say your door just opening. Since most are not just going to call the cops for every little noise
, would you go out to check it out, and would you take your carry gun IE handgun with your permit. Ok now lets say you do and you do end up on someone breaking into your car and end up using your weapon. Would it be a clean shoot or would you end up in jail, My understanding is in Indiana you would be ok, same as a I read florida law. Now sure if you do or say you saw someone went and got your gun and went out side it might go different, but I think it to be logical to go out side your house should you hear a odd noise and be it we carry everywere else take your gun. I would think it the same as if you came out of a store and someone was stealing your car or whatever
02-28-2011, 12:44 AM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,915
Laws defining the legal force justifiable to defend personal property outside the home, in the absence of mortal danger, vary from state to state.
I know that sounded like a lot of jargon, but when it comes to this type of situation, the letter of the law is very important.
In some states, it's legal for someone who is legally allowed to posess a firearm to shoot an unauthorized person attempting to break into their own car in the street, in some states, it's not. In some states, it's legal to shoot a person breaking your neighbor's window (potentially defending his life), in some states, it's not. In some states, the law limits the use of deadly force for situations where personal life is in immediate, mortal danger.
In Kansas, within the last decade, we passed a bill that allows citizens to use deadly force to defend their property, outside of their home, even when immediate mortal danger isn't involved. It originally stemmed from a few farmers getting prosecuted for shooting methamphetamine makers for breaking into their sheds to steal anhydrous ammonia. (Kansas had previously passed a law that farmers were required to enclose anhydrous ammonia, so farmers were required to build sheds over fixed tanks, and required to store mobile tanks inside, which is actually incredibly dangerous).
But then again, Kansas is a bit more old fashioned than other states. Many states don't believe that people have the right to defend their property.
From my perspective, in many states, it would be easy to spin it that it was murder if you shot someone breaking into your car. You have the option to remain safe inside your home, but you CHOOSE to take your weapon outside and kill the robber.
Personally, if they need my car that bad, they can have it. I'd honestly rather let someone steal my car and deal with filing the insurance and police reports than deal with the criminal AND civil trials from shooting the person, let alone carry the weight of having killed another person. Plus, just because the letter of the law says it's legal to shoot someone to defend your property, that doesn't mean that a judge and jury will uphold that belief. Regardless of the law, if a court doesn't believe your story, if you shoot someone, you MIGHT go to jail.
Then you also have to remember, even if a criminal court determines that you made a "clean shot", that doesn't mean that you won't be found liable in civil court. The robber, or their family still reserve the right to sue you for damages, regardless of whether it was a justified shooting or not. If someone steals your car, you might have to buy a new car, but if you shoot someone, the lawyer fees to defend yourself in both the criminal trial and the civil suit, plus any damages the family of your "victim", will end up being a LOT more expensive than the replacement cost of your car.
Now, if I'm at my old house out in the country where the closest cop is 40min away, I'll admit, I'm calling the cops while I go outside and firing some warning shots, and if they don't scatter, I'd probably take the shot. If I didn't have time to call the police during the action, I'll admit that there would be a few minutes where I'd even consider just burying them in the south 40 and not reporting it at all.
But in the same situation at my current house in town, I'm calling the cops, maybe going outside and hollering, but the gun won't be involved unless there's a threat to human life.
On the other hand, when the police show up, they're not going to know who's who. All they're going to see is a guy with a gun, and a guy with a gunshot wound. Yeah, they'll take the cuffs off once the story gets out, but upon arrival, AT BEST you're going to be looking down the barrel of their guns, then thrown on the ground and handcuffed. Alternatively, the last thing I need in the middle of the night is to get shot by some newbie cop with a twitchy finger because his adrenaline got the best of him when he saw a "perp with a gun".
At the end of the day, always keep two things in mind...
1) The law is the law, but the INTERPRETATION OF THE LAW isn't always so well defined. We've all heard the horror stories about "the home owner that got sued by a robber that fell on a kitchen knife when he broke in through the sky light", or "the home owner that went to jail because they shot a guy and he fell OUT of their front door". The letter of the law doesn't matter, it's whether the judge and jury believe YOUR lawyer or the dead robber's lawyer.
2) Even a justifiable shooting still leaves the weight of taking a human life on your shoulders. Things are just things. It's only money. I'd rather pay higher insurance premiums than kill someone over a car, or a couple CD's.
I know that sounded like a lot of jargon, but when it comes to this type of situation, the letter of the law is very important.
In some states, it's legal for someone who is legally allowed to posess a firearm to shoot an unauthorized person attempting to break into their own car in the street, in some states, it's not. In some states, it's legal to shoot a person breaking your neighbor's window (potentially defending his life), in some states, it's not. In some states, the law limits the use of deadly force for situations where personal life is in immediate, mortal danger.
In Kansas, within the last decade, we passed a bill that allows citizens to use deadly force to defend their property, outside of their home, even when immediate mortal danger isn't involved. It originally stemmed from a few farmers getting prosecuted for shooting methamphetamine makers for breaking into their sheds to steal anhydrous ammonia. (Kansas had previously passed a law that farmers were required to enclose anhydrous ammonia, so farmers were required to build sheds over fixed tanks, and required to store mobile tanks inside, which is actually incredibly dangerous).
But then again, Kansas is a bit more old fashioned than other states. Many states don't believe that people have the right to defend their property.
From my perspective, in many states, it would be easy to spin it that it was murder if you shot someone breaking into your car. You have the option to remain safe inside your home, but you CHOOSE to take your weapon outside and kill the robber.
Personally, if they need my car that bad, they can have it. I'd honestly rather let someone steal my car and deal with filing the insurance and police reports than deal with the criminal AND civil trials from shooting the person, let alone carry the weight of having killed another person. Plus, just because the letter of the law says it's legal to shoot someone to defend your property, that doesn't mean that a judge and jury will uphold that belief. Regardless of the law, if a court doesn't believe your story, if you shoot someone, you MIGHT go to jail.
Then you also have to remember, even if a criminal court determines that you made a "clean shot", that doesn't mean that you won't be found liable in civil court. The robber, or their family still reserve the right to sue you for damages, regardless of whether it was a justified shooting or not. If someone steals your car, you might have to buy a new car, but if you shoot someone, the lawyer fees to defend yourself in both the criminal trial and the civil suit, plus any damages the family of your "victim", will end up being a LOT more expensive than the replacement cost of your car.
Now, if I'm at my old house out in the country where the closest cop is 40min away, I'll admit, I'm calling the cops while I go outside and firing some warning shots, and if they don't scatter, I'd probably take the shot. If I didn't have time to call the police during the action, I'll admit that there would be a few minutes where I'd even consider just burying them in the south 40 and not reporting it at all.
But in the same situation at my current house in town, I'm calling the cops, maybe going outside and hollering, but the gun won't be involved unless there's a threat to human life.
On the other hand, when the police show up, they're not going to know who's who. All they're going to see is a guy with a gun, and a guy with a gunshot wound. Yeah, they'll take the cuffs off once the story gets out, but upon arrival, AT BEST you're going to be looking down the barrel of their guns, then thrown on the ground and handcuffed. Alternatively, the last thing I need in the middle of the night is to get shot by some newbie cop with a twitchy finger because his adrenaline got the best of him when he saw a "perp with a gun".
At the end of the day, always keep two things in mind...
1) The law is the law, but the INTERPRETATION OF THE LAW isn't always so well defined. We've all heard the horror stories about "the home owner that got sued by a robber that fell on a kitchen knife when he broke in through the sky light", or "the home owner that went to jail because they shot a guy and he fell OUT of their front door". The letter of the law doesn't matter, it's whether the judge and jury believe YOUR lawyer or the dead robber's lawyer.
2) Even a justifiable shooting still leaves the weight of taking a human life on your shoulders. Things are just things. It's only money. I'd rather pay higher insurance premiums than kill someone over a car, or a couple CD's.
