black water lower stripped NUMEREED from 1 to 400
02-02-2011, 09:25 AM
#1
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
black water lower stripped NUMEREED from 1 to 400
Ok a month ago when we got to florida I needed alittle money till pay day and took my tc triumph to a local pawn shop. I went in today to get it and had a very interesting talk with the owner.
He asked me if I was open to selling the muzzleloader, not much I said but I might.
He told me his cop buddy who does some work for him wants to buy it and asked me how much. As we talked he sat a Ar lower reciever down in front of me.
. I thought it was odd as there was no name just a bear paw print(blackwater logo) I then notice the name black water and a serial number under it and a number 356 I think. He told me when blackwater changed owners and names the name blackwater did not go with the sell, he said the main owner said that anything labeled as blackwater was to be removed from the line. I guess they took 400 receivers numbed between 1-400 and sold them quitely, the one numbered 1-5 went to the top 5 executives, I guess as a thank you for going to jail for us(their coming up on federal charges soon I guess). The pawn shop owner told me he knows a guy in the company who got 20, one being a special number he keep for him self( not giving it up to protect the source, and thus my chance to buy one two maybe 15 
).
He said there are 400 out there all sold to close members of the company and employees. The pawnshop owner is getting 14 plus the one he has now. He wants to work this into a trade for the triumph, given neither of us has an idea of what it is worth, we opted to take a day and talk again tomorrow.
Does anyone have any idea of the value of the lower given the story I just gave you, will this become a collector item or is it a lower worth at most a few hundred bucks. REMEMBER these guys are coming up for trail for serious stuff likely to be on
TV
also what would I be looking at to build a AR15 in 5.56 with higher end stuff, IE colt, dpms, bushmaster, with a 16 inch barrel, adjustable stuff and a flattop upper, likely will go all out, with a quadrail, highend parts but want a base price to know what I am in for should I go with it.
Also if anyone wants one I am sure I can help and get a price for you, he would ship to your ffl as he will need to ship mine to indiana since this is florida and I am still a indiana resident.
Let me know
He asked me if I was open to selling the muzzleloader, not much I said but I might.
He told me his cop buddy who does some work for him wants to buy it and asked me how much. As we talked he sat a Ar lower reciever down in front of me.
. I thought it was odd as there was no name just a bear paw print(blackwater logo) I then notice the name black water and a serial number under it and a number 356 I think. He told me when blackwater changed owners and names the name blackwater did not go with the sell, he said the main owner said that anything labeled as blackwater was to be removed from the line. I guess they took 400 receivers numbed between 1-400 and sold them quitely, the one numbered 1-5 went to the top 5 executives, I guess as a thank you for going to jail for us(their coming up on federal charges soon I guess). The pawn shop owner told me he knows a guy in the company who got 20, one being a special number he keep for him self( not giving it up to protect the source, and thus my chance to buy one two maybe 15 ). He said there are 400 out there all sold to close members of the company and employees. The pawnshop owner is getting 14 plus the one he has now. He wants to work this into a trade for the triumph, given neither of us has an idea of what it is worth, we opted to take a day and talk again tomorrow.
Does anyone have any idea of the value of the lower given the story I just gave you, will this become a collector item or is it a lower worth at most a few hundred bucks. REMEMBER these guys are coming up for trail for serious stuff likely to be on
TV
also what would I be looking at to build a AR15 in 5.56 with higher end stuff, IE colt, dpms, bushmaster, with a 16 inch barrel, adjustable stuff and a flattop upper, likely will go all out, with a quadrail, highend parts but want a base price to know what I am in for should I go with it.
Also if anyone wants one I am sure I can help and get a price for you, he would ship to your ffl as he will need to ship mine to indiana since this is florida and I am still a indiana resident.
Let me know
02-02-2011, 05:01 PM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,915
Not worth much to me...
Bottom end receivers can be had for $70, top end prices are as high as someone is willing to pay, but typically no higher than $250-300.
That Triumph is running $350 and up new. Even used, it's definitely worth a lot more than ANY stripped lower in my book.
I have no reason to believe that there will be any "collectors value" for a Blackwater Lower. No offense to the smiths at BW, but from where I sit, they're a "Lego shop". They take a bunch of pre-fab vendor parts and slap them together. Regardless of how many Bushmaster lowers the Blackwater shop put together before they contracted a direct vendor (early BW's were actually bushmaster parts...), Blackwater doesn't have a name in AR-15's, and with their current state of affairs, they likely never will. There is no reason to believe that the Blackwater lower receiver is of any significant quality compared to any other builder.
Additionally, if you ever try to re-sell the rifle: 1) it will be a "no-name" rifle, since NO ONE will know what a "Blackwater BW-15" is, and 2) it will be a mis-matched rifle, i.e. a BW-15 lower with a bushmaster upper 3) it will be a home-built "kit rifle", which people KNOW was cheaper on your end than an equivalent factory rifle AND people won't put high value on your gunsmithing skills. If you approach me with a mis-match brand, mis-match number, home built kit rifle that was your first build, I won't touch it with a 10ft pole.
I'd put a value of about $60-75 on the lower. Any receiver is worth at least that much.
Now, as far as building your own rifle from scratch goes, you can buy complete rifle kits for $500 (without lower receiver) for a "Standard" model. For a competition grade heavy barreled rifle with a quality trigger, I would plan on at LEAST $1,000 plus the lower. You'll also need a few specific tools to properly assemble the rifle, and ideally will spend a LOT of time mating parts together during assembly.
The major disadvantage in building a "kit rifle" is that the upper and lower may not mate properly together, so there could be slack between the two. I like to buy a few uppwer and lower receivers at a time so I can pick out the best mating sets.
That Triumph is running $350 and up new. Even used, it's definitely worth a lot more than ANY stripped lower in my book.
I have no reason to believe that there will be any "collectors value" for a Blackwater Lower. No offense to the smiths at BW, but from where I sit, they're a "Lego shop". They take a bunch of pre-fab vendor parts and slap them together. Regardless of how many Bushmaster lowers the Blackwater shop put together before they contracted a direct vendor (early BW's were actually bushmaster parts...), Blackwater doesn't have a name in AR-15's, and with their current state of affairs, they likely never will. There is no reason to believe that the Blackwater lower receiver is of any significant quality compared to any other builder.
Additionally, if you ever try to re-sell the rifle: 1) it will be a "no-name" rifle, since NO ONE will know what a "Blackwater BW-15" is, and 2) it will be a mis-matched rifle, i.e. a BW-15 lower with a bushmaster upper 3) it will be a home-built "kit rifle", which people KNOW was cheaper on your end than an equivalent factory rifle AND people won't put high value on your gunsmithing skills. If you approach me with a mis-match brand, mis-match number, home built kit rifle that was your first build, I won't touch it with a 10ft pole.
I'd put a value of about $60-75 on the lower. Any receiver is worth at least that much.
Now, as far as building your own rifle from scratch goes, you can buy complete rifle kits for $500 (without lower receiver) for a "Standard" model. For a competition grade heavy barreled rifle with a quality trigger, I would plan on at LEAST $1,000 plus the lower. You'll also need a few specific tools to properly assemble the rifle, and ideally will spend a LOT of time mating parts together during assembly.
The major disadvantage in building a "kit rifle" is that the upper and lower may not mate properly together, so there could be slack between the two. I like to buy a few uppwer and lower receivers at a time so I can pick out the best mating sets.
02-02-2011, 07:43 PM
#3
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
kind of what I figured, if I did build one it would be built by a trusted gunsmith
Bottom end receivers can be had for $70, top end prices are as high as someone is willing to pay, but typically no higher than $250-300.
That Triumph is running $350 and up new. Even used, it's definitely worth a lot more than ANY stripped lower in my book.
I have no reason to believe that there will be any "collectors value" for a Blackwater Lower. No offense to the smiths at BW, but from where I sit, they're a "Lego shop". They take a bunch of pre-fab vendor parts and slap them together. Regardless of how many Bushmaster lowers the Blackwater shop put together before they contracted a direct vendor (early BW's were actually bushmaster parts...), Blackwater doesn't have a name in AR-15's, and with their current state of affairs, they likely never will. There is no reason to believe that the Blackwater lower receiver is of any significant quality compared to any other builder.
Additionally, if you ever try to re-sell the rifle: 1) it will be a "no-name" rifle, since NO ONE will know what a "Blackwater BW-15" is, and 2) it will be a mis-matched rifle, i.e. a BW-15 lower with a bushmaster upper 3) it will be a home-built "kit rifle", which people KNOW was cheaper on your end than an equivalent factory rifle AND people won't put high value on your gunsmithing skills. If you approach me with a mis-match brand, mis-match number, home built kit rifle that was your first build, I won't touch it with a 10ft pole.
I'd put a value of about $60-75 on the lower. Any receiver is worth at least that much.
Now, as far as building your own rifle from scratch goes, you can buy complete rifle kits for $500 (without lower receiver) for a "Standard" model. For a competition grade heavy barreled rifle with a quality trigger, I would plan on at LEAST $1,000 plus the lower. You'll also need a few specific tools to properly assemble the rifle, and ideally will spend a LOT of time mating parts together during assembly.
The major disadvantage in building a "kit rifle" is that the upper and lower may not mate properly together, so there could be slack between the two. I like to buy a few uppwer and lower receivers at a time so I can pick out the best mating sets.
That Triumph is running $350 and up new. Even used, it's definitely worth a lot more than ANY stripped lower in my book.
I have no reason to believe that there will be any "collectors value" for a Blackwater Lower. No offense to the smiths at BW, but from where I sit, they're a "Lego shop". They take a bunch of pre-fab vendor parts and slap them together. Regardless of how many Bushmaster lowers the Blackwater shop put together before they contracted a direct vendor (early BW's were actually bushmaster parts...), Blackwater doesn't have a name in AR-15's, and with their current state of affairs, they likely never will. There is no reason to believe that the Blackwater lower receiver is of any significant quality compared to any other builder.
Additionally, if you ever try to re-sell the rifle: 1) it will be a "no-name" rifle, since NO ONE will know what a "Blackwater BW-15" is, and 2) it will be a mis-matched rifle, i.e. a BW-15 lower with a bushmaster upper 3) it will be a home-built "kit rifle", which people KNOW was cheaper on your end than an equivalent factory rifle AND people won't put high value on your gunsmithing skills. If you approach me with a mis-match brand, mis-match number, home built kit rifle that was your first build, I won't touch it with a 10ft pole.
I'd put a value of about $60-75 on the lower. Any receiver is worth at least that much.
Now, as far as building your own rifle from scratch goes, you can buy complete rifle kits for $500 (without lower receiver) for a "Standard" model. For a competition grade heavy barreled rifle with a quality trigger, I would plan on at LEAST $1,000 plus the lower. You'll also need a few specific tools to properly assemble the rifle, and ideally will spend a LOT of time mating parts together during assembly.
The major disadvantage in building a "kit rifle" is that the upper and lower may not mate properly together, so there could be slack between the two. I like to buy a few uppwer and lower receivers at a time so I can pick out the best mating sets.
03-22-2011, 07:40 PM
#4
Spike
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1
Hope this helps,
I have had offers of over $300.00, and or trades for even better value. I have declined so far. I think they are going to be very valuable within the next few years. I purchased mine to collect and build. I am fortunate enough to have a few good friends who are professional armorers and know what they are doing when it comes to building and fitting my uppers and lowers for a competition level shooter. Knowing what I know about the history of these receivers, I would hold on to it, and don't be fooled into selling it cheap to someone so they can reap your loss in dividends. Only 400 made, BW00001-BW0005 to the 4 top BW Execs, and their master armorer. A few issued here and there to various employees, and sold to non-employee's through BW Pro Shop, and the majority sold to BW employee's. Face it, there are not a lot of options for finding one, since they are no longer available through BW, and if you do it will probably cost you a lot more than what they sold for. Good luck, hope this helped.
I have had offers of over $300.00, and or trades for even better value. I have declined so far. I think they are going to be very valuable within the next few years. I purchased mine to collect and build. I am fortunate enough to have a few good friends who are professional armorers and know what they are doing when it comes to building and fitting my uppers and lowers for a competition level shooter. Knowing what I know about the history of these receivers, I would hold on to it, and don't be fooled into selling it cheap to someone so they can reap your loss in dividends. Only 400 made, BW00001-BW0005 to the 4 top BW Execs, and their master armorer. A few issued here and there to various employees, and sold to non-employee's through BW Pro Shop, and the majority sold to BW employee's. Face it, there are not a lot of options for finding one, since they are no longer available through BW, and if you do it will probably cost you a lot more than what they sold for. Good luck, hope this helped.
03-23-2011, 11:48 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,519
I kind of agree with the post a few posts up on the fact that I don't see it ever being worth a ton, but I could be wrong. That being said, muzzle loaders around here really loose their value. $400 ones new go for about $175-200 used in like new shape, and often times you can find them for that with a cheap scope. They just don't hold their value at all. I'm not sure why. So I wouldn't expect to get a ton for it.
