Is it just me?
08-30-2010, 07:33 PM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9
Is it just me?
Alright sorry in advance for the novel.
Ok im 38 years old and have been raised around guns my whole life. Recently I started doing research for my first hunting rifle. While I own quite a few guns I dont own huntin rifle that would be good on larger game.(deer, elk etc...)
There are more threads in more forums than one can imagine discussing and arguing all the different calibers one can use. The best is this and the best is that sort of stuff.
Being an engineer I like numbers and data so naturally those are the sort of things I gravitate to. After scouring through just about any data that would be applicable to my situation it finally dawned on me.
All the reccomended calibers are basically all the same! With a few exceptions they are all basically the same. If you look at the average energies carried downrange and average speeds most are not really different at all. Plus or minus a few hundred pounds and plus or minus 20 or 30 yards. From .270 (and somewhat even the .243) up to .308 and slightly beyond.
My dad has bagged untold whitetail and even elk for over 30 years with the same .243. This tells me using the right bullet and proper shot placement is the key factor here and not what superdupermagnumboattailWSM rifle you have.
What got me started on this is a good friend of mine who is an avid and skilled hunter wants me to come visit him at some point and do a little huntin. I told him I would look around and find me a rifle.
I had settled on a .270. He said "nnnnnnoooooooo you want to go with a .308 or a 7mm mag". When I asked why he said that the 308 is "inherently more accurate" and "Why do you think snipers use it". This is the kind of stuff that trips my trigger... so to speak.
Snipers use it as it mandated by NATO, and inherently more accurate is horse@#$!. Accuracy has many factors, and being .308 is not one of them.
After pouring over many charts I have come to this conclusion,pick the one you can find the best deal on when your looking to buy and learn to use it. While I may very well end up with one of those rifles it will be only because I got a good deal and ammo is cheap and plentiful.
So now the search for a decently built rifle for around 300 bux in whatever caliber, new or used.
Ok im 38 years old and have been raised around guns my whole life. Recently I started doing research for my first hunting rifle. While I own quite a few guns I dont own huntin rifle that would be good on larger game.(deer, elk etc...)
There are more threads in more forums than one can imagine discussing and arguing all the different calibers one can use. The best is this and the best is that sort of stuff.
Being an engineer I like numbers and data so naturally those are the sort of things I gravitate to. After scouring through just about any data that would be applicable to my situation it finally dawned on me.
All the reccomended calibers are basically all the same! With a few exceptions they are all basically the same. If you look at the average energies carried downrange and average speeds most are not really different at all. Plus or minus a few hundred pounds and plus or minus 20 or 30 yards. From .270 (and somewhat even the .243) up to .308 and slightly beyond.
My dad has bagged untold whitetail and even elk for over 30 years with the same .243. This tells me using the right bullet and proper shot placement is the key factor here and not what superdupermagnumboattailWSM rifle you have.
What got me started on this is a good friend of mine who is an avid and skilled hunter wants me to come visit him at some point and do a little huntin. I told him I would look around and find me a rifle.
I had settled on a .270. He said "nnnnnnoooooooo you want to go with a .308 or a 7mm mag". When I asked why he said that the 308 is "inherently more accurate" and "Why do you think snipers use it". This is the kind of stuff that trips my trigger... so to speak.
Snipers use it as it mandated by NATO, and inherently more accurate is horse@#$!. Accuracy has many factors, and being .308 is not one of them.
After pouring over many charts I have come to this conclusion,pick the one you can find the best deal on when your looking to buy and learn to use it. While I may very well end up with one of those rifles it will be only because I got a good deal and ammo is cheap and plentiful.
So now the search for a decently built rifle for around 300 bux in whatever caliber, new or used.
08-30-2010, 08:03 PM
#3
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
So now the search for a decently built rifle for around 300 bux in whatever caliber, new or used.
For $400 you can get into some better rifles.
If all you really have to spend is $300 then look at the Marlin XL7. Seems to be a decent rifle for the money and generally plenty accurate.
Your buddy couldn't be more wrong about the .270 Winchester. It is one of the absolute best all around cartridges ever devised. The only cartridge I would recommend above it would be the 30-06 if you are only going to have one rifle/cartridge.
08-30-2010, 08:22 PM
#5
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 131
Everything about this rifle is gonna be entirely your choice because we cant tell what will fit you good or more importantly what you want. The last rifle I bought I wanted a lightweight rifle, handled good, and I didnt want to spend a grip on a custom. I wanted to handle everything from mice to moose and then some if I need it to. I bought a browning x bolt in a 270 wsm. The reason I chose that round is ballistically it is slightly better than a 270 win. A 270 win is all anyone really needs in the lower 48 in my opinion. I already had a 270 win (due to sentimental value it has been semi-retired) and I wanted a new set of dies for the collection.
You are right a 243 will kill anything from mice to moose with good shot selection and placement. Just pick what feels good to you and what you enjoy shooting. Good luck on the hunt.
You are right a 243 will kill anything from mice to moose with good shot selection and placement. Just pick what feels good to you and what you enjoy shooting. Good luck on the hunt.
08-30-2010, 08:29 PM
#6
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9
As for the rifle I could possibly go to 400. I already have plenty of scopes and stuff around so thats not a problem. Yes I would preferr a used rifle. I like to tinker a bit so im not against takin one apart and workin it a bit. LOL
08-31-2010, 03:32 AM
#9
Typical Buck
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 797
Well put thunderstik,
I've personally never seen the logic behind a 100fps debate. Myself I reload and sometimes should stay away from the debates about caliber vs caliber. I love a 270 win and can make it out preform most factory 7rem mag loads. But if you wanted to compare factory vs factory load the edge will go to the mag. I personally shoot a 300 win mag in a accurate rifle. Yes it does out preform the 270 win hands down especially in the ft lbs column. But in trajectory they are near identical with my favorite pet loads. So if I walked out the door on a crisp morning to go elk hunting would it matter or would I doubt one or the others capability in taking the animal? Nope not even one bit. I guess I'm not as educated as some on the topic but when I walk out the door to go hunting I want the most flattest and hard hitting calibers for long range without suffering recoil or having to alter the rifle i.e. muzzle break. I haven't got into the WSM's and I hear great things about them but I'll personally take the 270 win or the 300 win mag. To me and just a personal opinion are about as perfect as you get for a standard caliber for long range hunting rifles. Those trajectory's are pre programmed in my head so I think I'm stuck for life. That in itself is more important than the difference of 400lbs of energy at 500yds for me. I've always looked at the 500yd mark on trajectory and foot pounds. It truly does show where one out preforms another. Mid weight bullets will catch up and most times surpass heavy ones at that distance in foot pounds and already edged the heavy bullet in trajectory the instance it left the muzzle. Anything under 300 yards you could use all sorts of calibers and options. My personal opinion if you never took a shot over 300 yds on elk sized game the perfect caliber would be a 375 H&H. I have one of them too but it's more of a novelty than a tool.
All of what I said is personal opinion about what I like. But common sense tells me 200yd shots with most calibers of today and yesterday that animal doesn't stand a chance nor will it know what killed it. Apples and Oranges.
In the right rifle I would love to put a 300 RUM or 308 Warbird in my collection. But then again I've always thought a .308 win was a magical little cartridge. I don't think you can go wrong by just drawing a caliber out of a hat with today's loads and bullet designs.
I've personally never seen the logic behind a 100fps debate. Myself I reload and sometimes should stay away from the debates about caliber vs caliber. I love a 270 win and can make it out preform most factory 7rem mag loads. But if you wanted to compare factory vs factory load the edge will go to the mag. I personally shoot a 300 win mag in a accurate rifle. Yes it does out preform the 270 win hands down especially in the ft lbs column. But in trajectory they are near identical with my favorite pet loads. So if I walked out the door on a crisp morning to go elk hunting would it matter or would I doubt one or the others capability in taking the animal? Nope not even one bit. I guess I'm not as educated as some on the topic but when I walk out the door to go hunting I want the most flattest and hard hitting calibers for long range without suffering recoil or having to alter the rifle i.e. muzzle break. I haven't got into the WSM's and I hear great things about them but I'll personally take the 270 win or the 300 win mag. To me and just a personal opinion are about as perfect as you get for a standard caliber for long range hunting rifles. Those trajectory's are pre programmed in my head so I think I'm stuck for life. That in itself is more important than the difference of 400lbs of energy at 500yds for me. I've always looked at the 500yd mark on trajectory and foot pounds. It truly does show where one out preforms another. Mid weight bullets will catch up and most times surpass heavy ones at that distance in foot pounds and already edged the heavy bullet in trajectory the instance it left the muzzle. Anything under 300 yards you could use all sorts of calibers and options. My personal opinion if you never took a shot over 300 yds on elk sized game the perfect caliber would be a 375 H&H. I have one of them too but it's more of a novelty than a tool.
All of what I said is personal opinion about what I like. But common sense tells me 200yd shots with most calibers of today and yesterday that animal doesn't stand a chance nor will it know what killed it. Apples and Oranges.
In the right rifle I would love to put a 300 RUM or 308 Warbird in my collection. But then again I've always thought a .308 win was a magical little cartridge. I don't think you can go wrong by just drawing a caliber out of a hat with today's loads and bullet designs.
08-31-2010, 05:53 AM
#10
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 9
A quote by me.
"After pouring over many charts I have come to this conclusion,pick the one you can find the best deal on when your looking to buy and learn to use it."
I guess You really didnt read what I said. If I came across a good deal on a 7mm mag I would buy it and learn how to use. The same goes for 30.06 and .270, 300wsm etc...
You also asked for my point. My point is most of these rounds are within just a few percentage points of each other in most all catagories of performance. Meaning if I take a shot with a 300wsm and the proper bullet with a rifle im familiar with and I have good shot placement the animal will be dispatched cleanly. And the same goes with most of those calibers in that range.
Of course I would like to have 2 of every rifle ever made but as you can see I dont hunt larger game much at all and I will be the first to say that I dont have any experience with larger game. I have been deer hunting a few times but never had the chance to bag one...yet.