Long Range Shooting
06-30-2003, 05:54 PM
#31
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location:
Posts: 198
RE: Long Range Shooting
OK lets start again put it another way!!!! What is the greatest distance you would be willing to shoot at deer sized game, assuming good conditions and what equipement do you use? Myself, 12 1/2 pound .366 D.G.W. 300 yards or less, but you knew that I think. I would also use a 10.5 pound 7mm Stw when I get it built.
06-30-2003, 07:18 PM
#32
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 380
RE: Long Range Shooting
Good Lord, Judson, how many times are you going to respond to yourself in a row?
To answer your question, if I had a deer/elk/bear/whatever at 350 yards I' d look at it really hard, look at the ground between him and me, debate it in my head for about ten seconds, and if I couldn' t come up with any other solution to the problem, I' d line up the most careful shot I' ve ever made and take it. Anything inside 250 is a gimme.
To answer your question, if I had a deer/elk/bear/whatever at 350 yards I' d look at it really hard, look at the ground between him and me, debate it in my head for about ten seconds, and if I couldn' t come up with any other solution to the problem, I' d line up the most careful shot I' ve ever made and take it. Anything inside 250 is a gimme.
06-30-2003, 07:54 PM
#33
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Newport Maine USA
Posts: 389
RE: Long Range Shooting
Judson, how many times are you going to respond to yourself in a row?
I believe if you look at the top of each of Juds posts hes addressing someone different with each reply.
I still have yet to get a shot up here thats much over 100-125yds so I would be ready for a longer shot but doubt where I hunt I would really get one.
woods
06-30-2003, 07:58 PM
#34
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 380
RE: Long Range Shooting
Sorry, I understand he' s responding to quite a few people (truth be told, more people who ask questions should stick around afterward for the discussion like he does), but he could put it all in one big post or something. [8D]
You may not have the most popular opinion on the boards, Judson, but keep up the discussion nonetheless.
You may not have the most popular opinion on the boards, Judson, but keep up the discussion nonetheless.
07-01-2003, 08:39 AM
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: Long Range Shooting
Maybe I am unethical. Maybe not. But its just me. I see 30 or 40 deer on the roadside just on the way to Morgantown WV, every fall. Maybe its cause we are so overpopulated with the deer. But it doesn' t break my heart to find deer that noone recovered. I don' t know if the ones I see that wasn' t recovered was shot with a bolt, or a semi. Maybe you can tell the difference. Hey maybe I am unethical.
But there was an incident that really bothered me last year.
I shot at a nice sika deer 6pt last year at 130 yards in the swamps in MD with a coppersolid slug out of my 12ga with rifled barrel and scope. I shot his whole front let off. I waited for the animal to lay down for an hour. Then low and behold, I see this deer hobbling thru the woods behind me. He somehow worked all the way around me. I took a bad shot thru branches, and grass, just to do anything to get him out of his misery. Well of course shooting thru brush at 30 yards is a waste of time. I never could find him. I spent 5 hours searching for him pissing off other hunters by walking near them splashing around. but in swamp water, blood is hard to see. All my hunting buddies, said don' t worry about it. But something about this deer really upset me. I mean I practiced alot at 100 yards. And took a few shots at 150 yards. I knew the bullistics. I was in a tree stand with a great gun rest. All things felt good. maybe I hit a branch. maybe I pulled. But these slugs are very expensive. Hard to do much practicing.
But there was an incident that really bothered me last year.
I shot at a nice sika deer 6pt last year at 130 yards in the swamps in MD with a coppersolid slug out of my 12ga with rifled barrel and scope. I shot his whole front let off. I waited for the animal to lay down for an hour. Then low and behold, I see this deer hobbling thru the woods behind me. He somehow worked all the way around me. I took a bad shot thru branches, and grass, just to do anything to get him out of his misery. Well of course shooting thru brush at 30 yards is a waste of time. I never could find him. I spent 5 hours searching for him pissing off other hunters by walking near them splashing around. but in swamp water, blood is hard to see. All my hunting buddies, said don' t worry about it. But something about this deer really upset me. I mean I practiced alot at 100 yards. And took a few shots at 150 yards. I knew the bullistics. I was in a tree stand with a great gun rest. All things felt good. maybe I hit a branch. maybe I pulled. But these slugs are very expensive. Hard to do much practicing.
07-01-2003, 10:17 AM
#36
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 6,471
RE: Long Range Shooting
Judson, I feel exactly like you do on this subject. Where is the " yardage" line drawn between hunting and shooting ? What does " Hunter" mean ? On the other hand whether one likes it or not it is perfectly legal to shoot animals at extended ranges. I just hope that if a person is willing to take real long shots that they have the training and ethics to back it up...I am sure some do but I think they really are in the minority. I personally like to be up close and personal with an animal I am about to kill if at all possible if not then it will be at a range where I can expect little to go wrong with the shot. If I am not mistaken there is a ban on .50 bmg rifles for hunting in Idaho because they(Fish and Game) were finding that some hunters were shooting Elk at ungodly distances and not bothering to properly recover animals unless the dead animal was visible from where they shot...
07-01-2003, 03:10 PM
#38
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: meridian idaho USA
Posts: 429
RE: Long Range Shooting
Judson,
You say that you believe hunting is about getting close like bow hunting.
Following your logic of not taking long range shots due to the possibility of the animal moving or the wind blowing the shot off line you would really have to get close bow hunting, like 10 yards.
Long range shooting isn' t just being able to hit a target, that is the easy part.
A high powered rifle in a caliber with sufficient dowrange energy with a 16x or 20x scope sighted properly is perfectly capable of taking a deer or elk cleanly at 500 yards.
The experience of the man behind the gun is the telling factor in the success or failure of long range shots.
1. he has to know the game well enough to be able to tell when the animal is settle and be confident the animal is not about to move
2. has to know how to achieve a solid rest in the field
3. needs to be able to read the wind conditions
4. needs to know the sight in of his rifle and the bullet drop to his target
5. needs to know the correct yardage to his target
Here is where the experienced rifleman comes in. Unless he has the skills equipment and information listed above he will not attempt the long range shot.
He knows his capabilities and limitations, and will pass on a shot if it is not right.
I will definitely agree inexperienced hunters should not attempt long range shots at game. I would venture a wild guess that no more that 5 or 10 percent of hunters have the experience/knowledge/equipment to be taking 500 yard shots in the field.
As to the feeling that all long range shooters of game are not good hunters then I can only think you have never hunted in the West in the mountains. You either take a long range shot across canyon or risk never seeing the animal again due to the thermals shifting and the fact that it might take you a couple hours to climb down and back up the other side to where you saw the animal and small chance the animal will still be there waiting for you.
Sometimes you have to go all the way back up and over and then down the other side to get to the animal, it sounds easy when you say " just get closer" .
You say that you believe hunting is about getting close like bow hunting.
Following your logic of not taking long range shots due to the possibility of the animal moving or the wind blowing the shot off line you would really have to get close bow hunting, like 10 yards.
Long range shooting isn' t just being able to hit a target, that is the easy part.
A high powered rifle in a caliber with sufficient dowrange energy with a 16x or 20x scope sighted properly is perfectly capable of taking a deer or elk cleanly at 500 yards.
The experience of the man behind the gun is the telling factor in the success or failure of long range shots.
1. he has to know the game well enough to be able to tell when the animal is settle and be confident the animal is not about to move
2. has to know how to achieve a solid rest in the field
3. needs to be able to read the wind conditions
4. needs to know the sight in of his rifle and the bullet drop to his target
5. needs to know the correct yardage to his target
Here is where the experienced rifleman comes in. Unless he has the skills equipment and information listed above he will not attempt the long range shot.
He knows his capabilities and limitations, and will pass on a shot if it is not right.
I will definitely agree inexperienced hunters should not attempt long range shots at game. I would venture a wild guess that no more that 5 or 10 percent of hunters have the experience/knowledge/equipment to be taking 500 yard shots in the field.
As to the feeling that all long range shooters of game are not good hunters then I can only think you have never hunted in the West in the mountains. You either take a long range shot across canyon or risk never seeing the animal again due to the thermals shifting and the fact that it might take you a couple hours to climb down and back up the other side to where you saw the animal and small chance the animal will still be there waiting for you.
Sometimes you have to go all the way back up and over and then down the other side to get to the animal, it sounds easy when you say " just get closer" .
07-01-2003, 04:08 PM
#39
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2003
Location:
Posts: 198
RE: Long Range Shooting
Did I I I repeat myself self?? Oh well sorry! Big country the slug guns of today are a far cry from 30 years ago. Out to over 100 yards they can rival rifle accuracy. I do not believe you are unethical You tried your best to find that deer!!! That is my hole point here, things can and do go wrong so it is up to us to do our best to elimate that possibility. When one speaks in generalities he will step on the toes of the exceptions. Where I live we hear alot of the stories of 500 yard + or - shots that start with " I thought I might be able to hit him." These are the people who I am talking about, the same people that will fire a shot, or barrage of shots at a deer and if it does not go down assume a miss.
I am not trying to argumentitive but I believe the average hunter/ shooter has no business shooting at game at over 300 yards. Since I have a range behind my gun shop I see lots of people sighting in and just plane shooting for fun. There are very few that can shoot 1" or less at 100 yards. Kidding alittle, to prove my point look at test results of most gun writers. Maby they can write but most of them can' t shoot. 1 3/4" from a Ruger 77, Same from a A Bolt . That is not my experiance with these guns. Now I said most gun writers so blease be merciful on me!!! Oh yes, If you can' t shoot better then I spell, give up.
I am not trying to argumentitive but I believe the average hunter/ shooter has no business shooting at game at over 300 yards. Since I have a range behind my gun shop I see lots of people sighting in and just plane shooting for fun. There are very few that can shoot 1" or less at 100 yards. Kidding alittle, to prove my point look at test results of most gun writers. Maby they can write but most of them can' t shoot. 1 3/4" from a Ruger 77, Same from a A Bolt . That is not my experiance with these guns. Now I said most gun writers so blease be merciful on me!!! Oh yes, If you can' t shoot better then I spell, give up.
