Quilly

is there a way you can get a rough idea of the shape of a bore without using a bore scope?
any signs to look for ( rust ) etc.

diyj98

Things like rust and pitting should stand out with the naked eye. Also check the end of the bore for cleaning rod damage. If you want to see an excessive case of this look at some military rifles and you' ll see what I' m talking about. The rifling should also appear sharp and not rounded. Of course a visual inspection will only point out abuse. A barrel may be shot out as far as top accuracy goes and you' ll never be able to tell by looking. That' s why I won' t buy used varmint or target rifles.

Nomercy

a good way to look for blatant disrepair, since as diyj pointed out typical wear isn' t usually noticeable, just putting a bore light down it and checking it out with your eye works, but instead of looking straight down the bore, use a steady hand and you can focus on individual parts of the bore, I usually cant it outward and start looking at the throat on one side, work straight up, and do that for 2-5times all the way up around the bore. Doing this I can see almost ANY rust in a bore, and any problematic deviations such as pitting and fouling, checking actual groove integrity is pretty much best left to a bore scope though.

Quilly

so i nice rifling should look sharp not rounded?

diyj98

You normally don' t see too many sporting rifles with visibly worn rifling, but you will see it quite often in older military arms. Yes, the rifling should look sharp. Take a look at your newer rifles, I' m sure you' ll see nice sharp rifling and a shiney bore (provided you keep them clean!).

Quilly

reason i am asking is a saw a nice M1 garand for $850.00. looked like a real good one. made in 1943 barrel done over in 1952. looking at the crown looked fine but i did notice that the M1 kinda had marks like you would see from copper fouling on the rifling closests to the muzzle.
trying to figure out if it is worth the $850.00 but besides that matching #' s as far as i can see and the wood is from the same gun no mis-matches.

Briman

Quilly: WIth the Garand, I wouldn' t be suprised to see copper fouling in the barrel. Alot of the military replacement barrels were fairly rough with tool marks on the inside and pick up hard to remove fouling quickly- this usually doesn' t affect accuracy too much as you can expect a Garand with a new barrel to shoot about 3 MOA regardless. I had a ' new' government issued barrel manufacured in 1944 put on my ' 03 that was very bright and shiny but one could see faint tool marks in the rifling if you looked close enough. After putting about 100 rounds through the barrel, it was very fouled with copper, but didn' t loose any accuracy, but I could not get all of the copper out with a normal cleaning- I might try an electric cleaner next, but I don' t think the little bit of fouling left is going to hurt anything.

On a Garand, the things to look for is a pitted or dark bore cause by shooting alot of corrosive ball ammo without immediate and proper cleaning. The next thing to check is the muzzle condition- put a 30 caliber bullet into the muzzle and make sure the muzzle doesn' t swallow the widest part of the bullet. The other thing to check is the throat erosion with a throat erosion (TE) guage. The amount of TE will determine how much the barrel has been shot and how much life it has left in it. Some gunsmiths might have such a guage and would be able to advise you on the barrel condition- maybe the shop you are buying it from has such a guage on hand.
$850 doesn' t sound like a bad deal for a matching rifle, most of them in my area that I see are upwards of $1000. If you do buy it, don' t go down to your local walmart and buy a box of 30-06 and start shooting, sporting 30-06 ammo is not loaded correctly for a Garand and will bend the op rod/ and or ruin your rifle. You' ll need to make your own handloads using powders with a burn rate similar to IMR 4064 or 4895 which both are good powders for the M1.

If you really want to get some in depth answers to questions, go to the board at jouster.com on the M1 page.

Quilly

i don' t reload so that could be a possible problem i think. is there any type of facotry ammo u might lead me twards? but if i do get it. it will be some time to get the money up for it.

Briman

There is alot of Korean and Danish M2 ball ammo out there at fairly reasonable prices- just search the internet for companies that sell surplus firearms and accessories on the net.

As far as loads for hunting, Iwould ask around on different boards that relate to military rifles on which manufacturers make ammo that is safe in the garand. I think PMC makes the Korean ammo, but not sure if they make a similar hunting load.

Briman

I forgot to mention, for hunting ammo, you could buy surplus ball, and spend $40 on a bullet puller, and a Lee hand press for 30-06. Pull the fmj bullets from the ball ammo, and replace them with 150 gr. hunting bullets. At this point, you would have a hand press, and spend another few bucks on a powder scale and you are all set to reload for 30-06 in a pinch.[8D]