Whats the scoop with Knight going out of business?
12-05-2009, 02:32 PM
#13
Banned
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 824
vabyrd I agree with alot of what you say but disagree with a lot also. The Knight muzzleloaders IMHO were and are the finest muzzleloaders on the market. My agenda for wanting them around was for myself and my children to be able to purchase new rifles of their design to use on many successful hunts. I am on my second knight disc, which is a 45 disc elite and it is amazing, even compared to wonderful custom centerfires I own. I really wish I would have never sold my generation 1 Disc 50!!! I look at my Knight as a very important tool because it shoots sub MOA and i hunt shotgun/muzzleloader only areas such as southern MI and IN at least once every year....sure I have nice rifles for hunting out west when I can foot the bill and at home if I am not tagged out from bow season, but i have high expectations of my front stuffer as it has and will continue to account for a large percentage of my shots at game...I do not want some cheapo POS for doing such!!!
Heck of a buck!
I figure the LK-93 would be the entry level, which is what I own, and is a pretty damn good rifle. I think 3 levels of rifles would be key. I am anti combo anything because few if any are actually any good. I also think pre packaging bullets is a good idea. I'm telling ya, I have to write a proposal for a my final business research project for college (and at 39 yrs old, no less) and this might be it. How to re-establish an innovator. Crud, it might look good on paper.
12-06-2009, 08:22 AM
#15
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Mid Missouri
Posts: 100
I have a knight that is prob 5 or 6 years old. I haven't taken anything but a racoon with it yet, but I know it will perform the way I want to when I need it. It was the entry level package deal back then and I really like the weapon.
To me, muzzle loader sales have exploded over the last 10 years. Many states do not allow centerfire rifles but do allow a ML, which expands the range of opportunity to harvest a deer by at least a factor of 2 if not 3 over a slug from a shotgun. If knight would have focused on just the inlines, or at least only a few product lines, the company may have been able to last. I would venture to say that 90% of the people who would want a ML, have already purchased one. If they would have focused on making say just 3 options, but still have advancements from year to year, many customers would keep coming back. And staying with an option that would be legal in the majority of states would also be key. I can see a few other states besides out west to tighten the restrictions back to a more traditional ML. My dad has a true old school ML that I would love to take game with. Something that brings more of a challenge. That is why I have purchased a bow recently. After a while with the compound, I would like to advance to a long bow. Anything that can be done, can be done with more challenging equipment.
Kind of rattled on, but I think my point has been put down on paper.
To me, muzzle loader sales have exploded over the last 10 years. Many states do not allow centerfire rifles but do allow a ML, which expands the range of opportunity to harvest a deer by at least a factor of 2 if not 3 over a slug from a shotgun. If knight would have focused on just the inlines, or at least only a few product lines, the company may have been able to last. I would venture to say that 90% of the people who would want a ML, have already purchased one. If they would have focused on making say just 3 options, but still have advancements from year to year, many customers would keep coming back. And staying with an option that would be legal in the majority of states would also be key. I can see a few other states besides out west to tighten the restrictions back to a more traditional ML. My dad has a true old school ML that I would love to take game with. Something that brings more of a challenge. That is why I have purchased a bow recently. After a while with the compound, I would like to advance to a long bow. Anything that can be done, can be done with more challenging equipment.
Kind of rattled on, but I think my point has been put down on paper.
12-06-2009, 06:34 PM
#16
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
No crap when i was in ky i went to a gun store It was a nice 30'06 in any brand or a knight muzzleloader ya the same money i do not think so. A guy was at the range today he had just bought a knight. I asked how much 250 bucks almost new. He said it was fired 5 times at a dealer for a demo. He said not sure why they sell it is it a newer model. I looked at him and said there closed out of business he was not happy
Because of products or what? After a brief stroll through the website it's clear where they went wrong. Black powder guns that cost more than centerfire is a no no. Then the introduction of the centerfire rifles, mistake. You don't go to a seafood restaurant for a steak.
Shadow
Rolling block
KPI
Shotguns
Here are the mistakes.
Kinda along the line of Beeman air rifles vs Daisy. Yes, their is a niche for $1000 air rifles. But everyone at one time has a Daisy, and people are still buying them.
They're for fun. The niche for ML's is that you get extra hunting time. Period. If you had the choice to use a rifle during ML, you would.
Nobody really takes them seriously anyway, like I said a bonus hunt is all it is. When you dump in the price point, you broke the bank. Scoped centerfire combos that sell for $350 are all over the place. The breaking point for ML should be below $200
Suggested retail appears way too steep. The old LK-93 blister packs were the way to go. If I remember correctly, I think you could go directly to the range from the store with that deal. Modern BP shotguns a needless. Anyone shooting these types generally are using reproductions.
So you drop everything except the Bighorn, revamp the LK-93, add a line of bp specific scopes (good ones, not like the crap we see on CF combos) Create a much better packaged combo than before. Then keep the long range model as the upper end.
Sponsor a Saturday morning show that highlights the simplicity of BP hunting and their products. Each week feature an actual customer along with the paid spokesman. Don't be afraid to spout load data. Make a deal with IMR for custom 100 gr. powder pellets, then Hornady for a custom bullet, and take your pick on the ignition and create one single whitetail load that takes all the guesswork out of shooting recipes. Use this on the show and sell all the bullet components in ONE STINKING PACKAGE....
When part of your company history includes "the pioneer of inline blackpowder rifles" You should have an enormous edge over all the competition, if you know how to use it.
Mr. Knight, I'll be waiting for your PM. I hear opportunity knocking. I've always wanted to be in the hunting industry.......love management strategy..
Shadow
Rolling block
KPI
Shotguns
Here are the mistakes.
Kinda along the line of Beeman air rifles vs Daisy. Yes, their is a niche for $1000 air rifles. But everyone at one time has a Daisy, and people are still buying them.
They're for fun. The niche for ML's is that you get extra hunting time. Period. If you had the choice to use a rifle during ML, you would.
Nobody really takes them seriously anyway, like I said a bonus hunt is all it is. When you dump in the price point, you broke the bank. Scoped centerfire combos that sell for $350 are all over the place. The breaking point for ML should be below $200
Suggested retail appears way too steep. The old LK-93 blister packs were the way to go. If I remember correctly, I think you could go directly to the range from the store with that deal. Modern BP shotguns a needless. Anyone shooting these types generally are using reproductions.
So you drop everything except the Bighorn, revamp the LK-93, add a line of bp specific scopes (good ones, not like the crap we see on CF combos) Create a much better packaged combo than before. Then keep the long range model as the upper end.
Sponsor a Saturday morning show that highlights the simplicity of BP hunting and their products. Each week feature an actual customer along with the paid spokesman. Don't be afraid to spout load data. Make a deal with IMR for custom 100 gr. powder pellets, then Hornady for a custom bullet, and take your pick on the ignition and create one single whitetail load that takes all the guesswork out of shooting recipes. Use this on the show and sell all the bullet components in ONE STINKING PACKAGE....
When part of your company history includes "the pioneer of inline blackpowder rifles" You should have an enormous edge over all the competition, if you know how to use it.
Mr. Knight, I'll be waiting for your PM. I hear opportunity knocking. I've always wanted to be in the hunting industry.......love management strategy..
