SWThomas

I shoot mine like I'm going to shoot it on the hunt. If I do use a bunch I use my sling swivel attached bipod or just my elbows. Vises are great but you're not going to hunt with one.

Hurricanespg

Yes. The rifle is going to recoil backwards no matter what once it is fired. It really does not matter whether it hits the rest or the shooters shoulder when it recoils backwards.

I don't think you should be worried about excessive muzzle flip in most centerfire rifles (.243, .308, 7mm-08, 30-06 for example) the bullet is gone before you get the muzzle lifting. Still if it is a concern just grip the forearm of the rifle. Of course if you are shooting a shotgun you need to hold the forearm anyways because it will effect the POI whether you are using a rest of not.

I think this last one is where we really disagree. The lead sled does not stop the rifle from recoiling backwards, it just cushions the shooter from feeling it.

If you have access to a lead sled try shooting it with no weight in the tray, and then shooting it with weight in the tray. You will find that you will have the same POI, but you will feel the recoil more with no weight in the tray.

Mind you I am not saying that the lead sled is the best rest out there or the end all be all of rests, but it is quite usable, and as I mentioned before I notice no change in POI when hunting or shooting without it.

HEAD0001

Now this is where we disagree. If that were true then how would you get muzzle flip from a bipod off the hood of a truck?? I did state in an earlier post that there is less barrel time in a faster cartridge. But barrel time still exists.

We will just have to agree to disagree on this one. Tom.

Hurricanespg

I'm not sure I understand the question. I thought we agreed that muzzle flip is one of the ways that a rifle recoils?
I thought of another way to explain the backwards recoil thing.
According to your theory the lead sled due to the extra weight on the rest causes a different POI right? So, in theory a person shooting from a sitting position with a bipod from a hard rest should get a different POI than the same person shooting from a prone position with a bipod and a hard rest. According to your theory this would have to occur because the shooter in the prone position would have all of their weight directly behind the rifle as opposed to the same shooter from the sitting position only having their shoulder behind the rifle.
If that were actually the case then you would have to constantly readjust your sights for all of the different hunting positions you might find yourself in ie. standing, sitting, prone, kneeling, etc, because all of them would have varying degrees of weight behind the firearm.
I guess we can disagree though.

HEAD0001

I do believe this to be true. I have a friend who shoots prone competition. He has told me his rifle never shoots the same as it does off the bench. He only uses the bench to work up his load, then his rifle never sees the bench again. But then again, this is a guy that shoots 400-600 yards. Not 100 yards. Tom.

Hurricanespg

Not intended to be an insult, but I do not believe that it is your friends rifle that is shooting to a different POI from the different positions. I believe it is him. Some shooting positions are naturally more steady than others. Once you move towards the more unsteady positions human error is again involved.
Personally, I have not noticed any difference in my shooting out beyond 400 yards from the different positions with or without a rest that cannot be attributed to human error.

stubblejumper

I can tell you that it is a fact that using a gun vice can result in a different point of impact.I have proven this by shooting the same guns off of bags,and out of the vice.The gun vices that effected the point of impact were ones that clamped on to the stock.

jcchartboy

While it would normally amaze me that someone would spend pages saying that the lead sled doesn't affect POI, I have seen enough people who just haven't off shot one long enough to realize that fact, do just that over and over. (Invariable you read months later that they no longer useit for anything more thaninitially sighting in, which of course is its real purposein the first place).

In any case, after have been there and done that with similar types of rests, it didn't take me long to realize that the best answer is to shoot from as natural a position aspossible using the minimum amount of rests necesarry to hold the gun steady. Along those lines, a simple front pedestal rest and a rear bag arefor all practical purposesthe best set up you can ever hope to establish. (Yes, simple sand bags when used properly can be just as good as well.)

Here is my current setup. I useasimple Caldwell BR rest, and a protector rear bag. That is it.

jcchartboy

Also, for anyone wondering what kind of accuracythey may be able to achieve withsimilar rests. Here is a 100yd group from the last range session I had before our seasons started here way back in September, (amazingly they are still open ).

JC