hometheaterman

Before anyone asks I'm giving it time to cool down. I will shoot 1-2 shots and then wait 5-15 mintues. I've tried waiting about 10 minutes after each shot and waiting longer after 2 shots. It doesn't seem to help. I'm not just firing off emptying the magazine so I am letting it cool down.
Ok, here goes.
I have a Browning BAR 30-06 I bought used a couple years ago. Well right under 2 years. It's a older gun but not super old. According to the serial number it was made in 1990. So as you can see not new but not old either. When I got it it appeared to be in really good exterior shape. Had a dimple in the wood and something on the metal on the receiver. Just like the size of a nickel that's just rough textured. Not sure what it is. Anyway, it appeared to honestly be in like new shape which is why I bought it.

I like the feel of the gun and it looks nice but I can't get it to shoot worth a damn. Now I don't have the best vise to hold it down so I wouldn't be surprised if a tiny bit of it is me moving but a buddy whom is really good with shooting also shot it and said he wondered if maybe something was wrong with the gun.

I shot it at a buddy's when sighting it in with Winchester Silvertips and his furthest target was 50 yards. He has a nice vise though and I could get it so that each hole was touching the other at 50 yards. Now his vise was a lot better than mine so it held it still better than I can in mine. However, I can do pretty well with it at 50 yards in my vise. At 50 yards I'd say the group was about 1" with all the holes touching. It opened up to one big hole about 1" in diameter after 6 shots. So would that be how big the group is?

The problem is when I move out to 100 yards. The Federal Fusions are the only ones I've gotten to shoot halfway decent in it and I'd say I get about a 2" grouping from them at best. The bulleye on my target is 1" in diamter and there is a ring around the bullseye that is 1" away from the bullseye. I can put them inside that ring but not inside the bullseye so I'd say that's a 2" group. Sometimes it opens up to a 3" group but since I have gotten them in the 2" that makes me think it's me.

Now any other bullet I've tried I can't do that. It will sometimes shoot 2 in the same spot as in same hole. Then the next two will be 4" away. I have 8" targets and I can hit the target each time but it's all over the place. I'd say about a 6" group at 100 yards. This to me is crazy. I finally found the Fusions that do a lot better as said but they are also pretty expensive which isn't my favorite thing.

I've just never had it shoot how I want. I guess I'm wanting the holes touching each other at 100 yards although I'm not sure that will ever happn.

What is a resonable group to expect from this gun? Is a 2-3" group I'm getting with the Fusions pretty decent for this gun or is it horrible?

I've had a few people tell me if I can get a 6" group to count myself lucky since it's a semi auto. That if I want accuracy get a bolt action. Then I've had others tell me that's about as good as I'd probably get from most guns so that the 2" groups with the Fusions are really good. Then others have told me something seems to be wrong with the gun. What do you guys think? What kind of groups are resonable for this? Should I send it off and have Browning check it out for the heck of it or are my groups about as good as it will see?

I spent probably $500 in bullets testing different kinds over the last year and several boxes of a couple kinds trying to get it sighted in. I'm getting tired of it.

country1

I would have a gunsmith or someone very knowledgeable about rifles check it out. It could a worn, loose or defective part in the action. Another posibility is something isnot tight/rightbetween the barrel, receiver, action, gun to stock, bases or rings. Is this rifle suppose to be bedded or free floating - if so is that part okay? Is the stock sound? How does the rifling look? Is it pitted or worn? How does the crown look? Is the barrel bent in any way? Is the trigger pull so high it is hard to be accurate? I had a rifle like this - so I adjusted the trigger (make sure you know what you are doing here or have a gunsmith do it for you). Personally, I don't shoot from a vice as you may crack the stock (I shoot from a rest).Is there a hairline crack in the stock from when you bought it? Some peoplehave reallyloading up their Lead Sleds - it is possible the person knew they cracked the stock and traded it in. It could also be a gun that needs to have handloaded rounds to be accurate.

hometheaterman

So this is not normal for the gun? The stock seems fine. Has a few scratches but no cracks that I've seen and is super tight. The forearm piece is a little loose but from what I've heard most of the BAR's have this issue. The trigger pull is a little hard but not too bad. I don't think the barrel is bent but not 100% sure on that. Seems unlikely. It's hard to see down the barrel but what I can see looks okay. You can see the rifling fairly well and the crown seems fine if I run a q tip around it. Not sure about the action as I don't know how to check the stuff and when I've called around to gunsmiths in the past none of them seemed like they wanted to look at it or thought they could do anything. Should I keep trying until I find a good one or are 2-3" groups normal for this rifle?

So is the Lead Sled not a good idea or is it okay?

Remnard

Hold on there, before we start running to a gun smith.

Let's go over the basics, before we start spending money.
It's a semi Auto. They are famous for havingdifferent points of impact from the first shot to the second and third etc.

Try this:

Clean the gun with a copper solvent and make sure it is clean. I'm not talking about looking down the barrel (put a flashlight in the open action) and saying "it looks good to me" clean. I mean pushing patch after patch of copper solvent cleaner through it until it comes out as clean as it went in. If it was my gun and I bought it used, I would then push some JB bore paste (Brownell's)through it and make sure it was clean. This will also remove some of the copper catching burrs in the barrel that exist in just about every factoryinstalled gun barrel out there.

Now, when you are sure the gun is clean put up several targets. Load the gun with one bullet only and let the action slide fully forward with all the force from the spring. Make sure the gun is pointed in a safe direction, just in case somehow you get a slam fire. I have never seen this happen with a bar, but ,,,, safety first. This will get as close as possible to the same position the bolt will be in as when the gun cycles for a second shot.

Now at one of the targets fire this round to the best of your ability. After you see where that shot went, open the bolt and hand cycle it with another round just like you loaded the first round. Fire the second round and see where that one goes. I'm guessing it will be pretty close to the first one.

Now load the gun magazine with as many as it will take. Cycle the bolt hard by hand like you did the last 2 times and fire at the first target again. You should now have a 3 shot group here.

Now, ignore that first target and fire the rest of the rounds at a second target. I will bet that the rest of the rounds will group very well. The reason for this is when the bolt cycles from the bullet firing, it has a tendency to seat the round in the chamber much harder than when you just let the bolt close on a round manually. This will often move the bullet further up in the chamber, closer to the lands, and affect the point of impact.

Try this experiment and see if the different methods of bolt closure to battery don't affect the point of impact.

Once you have that figured out, what you need to do is see which ammo will work best in that gun. Make sure that you clean the gun thoroughly when ever you switch brands of ammo and even bullet weights. Remember, when you clean the gun it will now be cooled down again and will shoot to a different POI than a warm gun. Also most guns typically throw a flyer to a different POI on the first shot after cleaning. I usually firea fouling shot after cleaning.

It's a 30-06, so a 165 grain bullet has the best BC and sectional density, and theoretically should fly the best. I don't know what the twist is in your gun, so it may actually like 180's better.

Also understand that not many people break a gun in the proper way, which is of utmost importance, even with a fine gun like the BAR. When breaking a gun in, you should at least run a patch and a bronze brush after each round for the first ten rounds. Then do same after each3 round volley, letting the gun cool between rounds. After 20 rounds this way, Clean again thoroughly and then do a thorough cleaning with the JB Bore paste. I think you will be surprised at the accuracy that can be attained from off the shelf guns, that are often shot 20 or 30 times by the first owner, and get copper fouled and are difficult to clean and people give up on them, and they end up on the second hand shelf, where I do most of my shopping!

Any rough spot along that barrel on one side or another, will collect copper and powder fouling in the burrs along the lands. This copper will build up enough to prevent the bullet from obturating and sealing the gas behind it. This can squeeeze the bullet out of shape, and you really don't want that as the bullet's concentricity is what allows it to push through the atmosphere and fly straight. The tiniest bit of out of round can put that bullet 3" off at 100 yards, let alone several hundred yards.

It sounds like a lot of work, and it is. But once you break in a barrel correctly it will clean easier and you will get more accurate rounds between cleanings, saving you time in the long run.

Have fun.

stalkingbear

Try working up a good load and check the crown.

HEAD0001

I got flamed once before for saying this. But I will say it again. I like the Browning BAR, but I have never known the rifle to be an accurate rifle. I have owned 4 or 5 of them. Most grouped around 1-1/2 to 2-1/2 inches at 100 yards. Especially with a 5 shot group. Most 3 shot groups were not much better.I have shot some reloads in them also, but the groups did not improve that much. I have also been around a bunch of them, and they all had about the same accuracy.

Functioning on the ones I had were great. No functioning problems at all. This is a great hunting rifle. And even with groups like this, a 300 yard shot is no problem. Tom.

eldeguello

When you say "vise", I am assuming you mean a shooting rest of some sort. IF you are actually shooting from some sort of vise, that could be the source of the problems. NO rifle will shoot well from a hard surface or vise. Use a cushion between your rifle and the rest.

You have to clean these things from the muzzle, so rifling can get worn at that point. This is bad for accuracy.

The BAR I had (.308) would put two shots right together, then they'd walk off vertically. It was a Grade IV, so was nicely engraved. Too bad it wouldn't shoot. Got rid of it.

hometheaterman

As for cleaning it I've been using Wipe Out and cleaning until it gets clean. I've tried other things but this is what I've found to get the most out as well as a local gunsmith recommended saying he liked the best. I have never used the JB Bore paste though. Do you know where the best place to find this is as I'm not sure if I've ever seen it. It usually takes a while and several hours to get it clean but I can get it to where the patches are coming out clean. I can also look down the barrel and it looks clean but that's hard to see. The patches coming out clean are what tell me it's clean. I then run a patch through with gun oil on there before I put it up to store. I usually fire a fowler shot also before I start shooting however, in my testing I've noticed that the first shot is usually very close to where the rest are.

When testing I almost always load one at a time in there and let the bolt go forward. This is how I've almost always done it. Very seldom do I load the magazine up and just keep shooting unless I'm hunting. Although, I have done it a time or two. Usually I put one in and pull the bolt back and slightly open the magazine door and let the bolt go. You have to either reach inside and push the piece on the magazine down or open the door slightly for it to go forward. I usually do this each shot. Maybe I should try doing 2 like this then loading the magazine like you said and see what it does. This thing is draining my pocket as ammo is not cheap at $30 a box so I've been trying to shoot it as little as possible since like I said I've shot up probably $3-500 of ammo this year alone. Well, 08 so last year I guess now.

As for the shells I'm shooting I'm using 150 grain Fusions. I was originally using 165 Grain Winchester Soft Points but they were always sold out at our local Wal-Mart so I switched to 150 grain and I had some old Fusions in 150 so I tried them and it's what grouped the best. I've tried the Core Lokts though in 165 grain and I got horrible groups from them. Should I try a 180 grain bullet out? I just hate to adjust my scope for a 180 grain bullet then it not be much better and have to re adjust it for a 150 or 165 grain.

hometheaterman

The vise I've had clamps to the side. However, I've also tried shooting off other stuff and it doesn't seem to do much better. The only time I've gotten it to group well was a thing I call a vise but I'm not sure if that's the proper term. Anyway, a buddy had it and you put the butt of the stock in it and it fit snugly around it. Kind of like the Caldwell Lead Sled's do. Then on the front it had a Y that the forearm piece rested in. I got great groups at 50 yards. Shot 6 shots and they all were touching. However, I can get decent groups at 50 yards in my vise thing I have. For some reason once I move out to 100 yards that's where the problem starts.

I will post a picture of what I have and am shooting from in a minute. It's kind of crappy but it holds it a lot stiller than I would be able to free hand. Even in sandbags I can't hold it but soo still. Less than like this. At least from the ones I've shot from.

hometheaterman

That's what I have now that I'm using.

I'm debating buying a Caldwell Lead Sled or some sandbags. What do you guys think is the better option?

One thing that makes me think it's more the rifle than me or the rest is I put my muzzle loader in the same vise thing and I shot 3 shots at 100 yards. One was dead center in the bullseye. One was on the right side of it but touching the bullseye and the first hole and the other was on the left side touching the bullseye and the left hole.
It just seems odd to me I can take my muzzle loader and make great imo groups yet I can't do it with this rifle.


Also another question. Do you guys know how you can tell which grade BAR you have?