30-06 for brown bear
03-11-2003, 07:28 AM
#32
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: 30-06 for brown bear
Dakota,
A few thoughts about recoil.
I also have a Sako in 338. First it is much lighter than my other 338, which means it will be great for hiking up and down terrain and you will be more tempted to carry it in your hands instead of slung on your shoulder, BUT the lighter rifle in the same caliber/cartridge choice WILL recoil more. So if I don' t miss my guess your rifle is light. One thing you can do is load up the magazine versus single feeding at the range -- that will add a few ounces.
Some of the African big bore shooters have a gunsmith add removable weights (typically a putty like substance with lead shot mixed in or mercury tube setups) in the hollows of the stock. This makes the gun heavier and tamer for practice and then when show time comes they remove the weights, double check the zero -- and when they are out hunting of course recoil is no issue at all.
Also the decelerator pad mentioned by Bearhuntr is a good idea, EVEN if it came with a basic recoil pad. Pachmayr' s Decelerator' s have two advantages, they are truly DESIGNED to reduce recoil and they came in varying thicknesses to help in FITTING the rifle to the shooter. As you move up in power this last item is CRITICAL. Your thumb must be away from your nose (1/2" ).
Since you have until next fall, consider " backing off" on the ammo a little bit. Bearhuntr is right, if you have the Federal 250gr High Energy (HE) rounds they are on the high, high end. These would be a good place to end up and not necessarily a good place to start. Consider starting with 200s, then 225s, then regular 250' s, and then 250 HE' s (though not all rifles shoot these hot rounds well). In the coming months you want to turn this rifle into your old comfortable friend and a gradual " courtship" could be beneficial. I would recommend against a " give me your best shot, I can take it" sight in approach.
Just to pre-empt any possible flinch development take someone who knows the basics of gun handling with you to the range. With the rifle on the bench, you the shooter looks away while your helper " loads" the gun and puts it on safe. The only catch is your " loader" is instructed to sometimes put a live round in the chamber, and sometimes leave it empty -- you don' t know the difference (in the beginning make it majority empty). If you are " jerking" your shots it will be painfully apparent on the first dry fire.
Finally, when I found myself sighting in four rifles at one time for elk season (mine, one each for the two boys, and then the camp rifle) and since we lean towards the bigger stuff it was getting a bit obnoxious (no better place to get slapped around than at the bench rest). I shelled out the $25 and bought a strap on shoulder pad (goes on the shooter not the rifle). Ah, much better where were we.
It is just like moving up from high school football to the NFL: bigger, more power, extra equipment, more technique. Completely doable though, my two boys shoot 338' s for elk and they are 160 lbs and 20 years old. Some make take this " list" of items to say, " see, just one more reason NOT to use a magnum" -- No doubt if you aren' t willing to go thru a little bit of " spring training" then you won' t play in the NFL. Many of these folks upon their first negative experience with recoil retreat back to ol' faithful and put the rifle up for sale without ever exploring what they were doing wrong. Poor Coaching.
BTW - by considering yourself a " greenhorn" (as far as Brownies go) you are way, way ahead of the game -- no disabling pride, no negative attitude -- you' ll do fine.
Never Go Undergunned,
EKM
A few thoughts about recoil.
I also have a Sako in 338. First it is much lighter than my other 338, which means it will be great for hiking up and down terrain and you will be more tempted to carry it in your hands instead of slung on your shoulder, BUT the lighter rifle in the same caliber/cartridge choice WILL recoil more. So if I don' t miss my guess your rifle is light. One thing you can do is load up the magazine versus single feeding at the range -- that will add a few ounces.
Some of the African big bore shooters have a gunsmith add removable weights (typically a putty like substance with lead shot mixed in or mercury tube setups) in the hollows of the stock. This makes the gun heavier and tamer for practice and then when show time comes they remove the weights, double check the zero -- and when they are out hunting of course recoil is no issue at all.
Also the decelerator pad mentioned by Bearhuntr is a good idea, EVEN if it came with a basic recoil pad. Pachmayr' s Decelerator' s have two advantages, they are truly DESIGNED to reduce recoil and they came in varying thicknesses to help in FITTING the rifle to the shooter. As you move up in power this last item is CRITICAL. Your thumb must be away from your nose (1/2" ).
Since you have until next fall, consider " backing off" on the ammo a little bit. Bearhuntr is right, if you have the Federal 250gr High Energy (HE) rounds they are on the high, high end. These would be a good place to end up and not necessarily a good place to start. Consider starting with 200s, then 225s, then regular 250' s, and then 250 HE' s (though not all rifles shoot these hot rounds well). In the coming months you want to turn this rifle into your old comfortable friend and a gradual " courtship" could be beneficial. I would recommend against a " give me your best shot, I can take it" sight in approach.
Just to pre-empt any possible flinch development take someone who knows the basics of gun handling with you to the range. With the rifle on the bench, you the shooter looks away while your helper " loads" the gun and puts it on safe. The only catch is your " loader" is instructed to sometimes put a live round in the chamber, and sometimes leave it empty -- you don' t know the difference (in the beginning make it majority empty). If you are " jerking" your shots it will be painfully apparent on the first dry fire.
Finally, when I found myself sighting in four rifles at one time for elk season (mine, one each for the two boys, and then the camp rifle) and since we lean towards the bigger stuff it was getting a bit obnoxious (no better place to get slapped around than at the bench rest). I shelled out the $25 and bought a strap on shoulder pad (goes on the shooter not the rifle). Ah, much better where were we.
It is just like moving up from high school football to the NFL: bigger, more power, extra equipment, more technique. Completely doable though, my two boys shoot 338' s for elk and they are 160 lbs and 20 years old. Some make take this " list" of items to say, " see, just one more reason NOT to use a magnum" -- No doubt if you aren' t willing to go thru a little bit of " spring training" then you won' t play in the NFL. Many of these folks upon their first negative experience with recoil retreat back to ol' faithful and put the rifle up for sale without ever exploring what they were doing wrong. Poor Coaching.
BTW - by considering yourself a " greenhorn" (as far as Brownies go) you are way, way ahead of the game -- no disabling pride, no negative attitude -- you' ll do fine.
Never Go Undergunned,
EKM
03-12-2003, 03:46 AM
#33
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 41
RE: 30-06 for brown bear
bearhuntr, otis, and ELKampMaster, thanks for the advise. The answer to your question is yes, they are highenergy nosliers. That is what the gun shop recommended. And yes the rifle is fairly light, but that is the one that felt right. I wish I was hand loading but im not, however I am going to try my hand at it for my 06 to see how well I do.Do not worry that rifle is HOME, it is not going anywhere. I just cant get over the power that thing has[WOW] I have never shot anything that big before. I may have found a new way to remove stumps from the pasture. HA HA HA! ELKampMaster, you are right, this is definately a huge jump up to the big boys. Today at work I was telling everyone about this cannon, but I dont think they believe me so this weekend some of them are wanting to try their hand at it. You see, we have never needed anything like the 338 here so its like seeing the grand canyon for the first time. I really do want to thank everyone for their help. DAKOTA NUT 5.
03-12-2003, 09:04 AM
#34
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
Posts: 6,270
RE: 30-06 for brown bear
bearhuntr, you' re right, under present laws!! The flying service pilot who told me this story said it happened in Territorial days, before Alaska statehood, and the laws requiring nonresidents to have guides! I don' t know!! It is possible that it was just one of those Alaskan " tall tales, like iceworms and snowsnakes" , which I noted can actually be better than Texas tall tales. One time the Fairbanks Chamber of Commerce sent a delegation to Seattle to try to raise some funding for the upcoming Alaska Purchase Centennial. When they returned, a couple of them were interviewed on a TV news program in Fairbanks. The reporter asked them " How did they treat you in Seattle?" One of them answered " They treated us swell. Why, they even believed everything we told them!!"
I was there eons ago! I hope Alaska hasn' t changed too much! I was there from Jul. 1963 to Oct. 1966.
I was there eons ago! I hope Alaska hasn' t changed too much! I was there from Jul. 1963 to Oct. 1966.
03-12-2003, 10:55 PM
#35
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Rocky Mountains, Colorado
Posts: 1,964
RE: 30-06 for brown bear
Dakota,
Please do me a favor. At your little get together don' t ambush your friends with recoil! You' ll already be the center of attention given your " big stick" magnum so I' d encourage you to enjoy your moment, but play fair.
If you follow these threads for very long you will see a large contingent that hate magnums. Many just don' t want to change anything for any reason; however, some I' m sure have had a negative personal experience with more recoil than they were prepared for or coached for. I' m hoping you won' t add any new members to the " hate magnums" club. Your friends will be more " in awe" if they come " away from it all" with an appreciation for its power rather than " hurt" and carrying a hatred for anything bigger than a 30-06 and labelling you as crazy.
If you' d be so kind, pick up a box of 200 grainers. You shoot first with the 200' s so they get some idea what they are up against. Then for each one check for stock fit and let them have a shot. Take a pair of heavy leather gloves so if any of them are tall and lanky (like myself) then you can " lengthen the stock" by wadding the gloves against their shoulder so their thumb won' t be resting on their upper lip/nose. Even with 200' s if their thumb is touching their nose/lip they won' t be happy and it' s not fair.
After every one has had a turn, then you can mention, that those bullets were the " fly-weights" and if they are interested in the " bear-bullets" they can have a turn but that things get a bit nastier. Some may have had enough with the 200' s and that' s fine. For those who continue, well they had a trial run and a " fair warning." Practical jokes with recoil are no joking matter.
When I was 16 and my brother was 25, one of his friends visited our ranch and we went shooting. Pistols, my 270, a 243, etc. and then his friend pulled out a 458 Win Mag. I was in awe and watched them carefully. It didn' t appear that the " kick" was killing them so I asked for a turn. My brother' s friend with a wry smile said, " sure." But before he could hand me the rifle, my brother took him aside and they conferred for a while and then the friend dug in the trunk of his car and pulled out some " special" ammunition. I paid little attention and they handed me the rifle ready to go. I remember how heavy the rifle was, and how hard it was to hold level compared to my 270. I knew this was some serious hardware. I mustered all the toughness I could and pulled the trigger.......
Big boom, big kick -- at least as much as a 3" 12 ga. mag -- it was a lot -- but it wasn' t bad -- I was still standing! I was on top of the world! At 16 I had handled an elephant gun! It wasn' t until decades later when I came to appreciate the true power of that cartridge with " full house" loads that I realized my brother had covered my back and insisted on lighter loads from his friend for me. It could have went the other way and it would have knocked me into the next county and to this day I would probably be preaching the evils of magnums and never have ventured beyond my 270.
Instead the opposite was true. Thru the years, I never met a gun or a cartridge that I was afraid of -- how bad could it be? -- I can handle that -- it can' t be worse than a 458! It is indeed mind over matter. Still glad my brother prevented a cruel joke. I am always glad to let others try the bigger magnums, but never with the intent of letting them get hurt.
Your call -- have fun! [>:]
Never Go Undergunned,
EKM
Please do me a favor. At your little get together don' t ambush your friends with recoil! You' ll already be the center of attention given your " big stick" magnum so I' d encourage you to enjoy your moment, but play fair.
If you follow these threads for very long you will see a large contingent that hate magnums. Many just don' t want to change anything for any reason; however, some I' m sure have had a negative personal experience with more recoil than they were prepared for or coached for. I' m hoping you won' t add any new members to the " hate magnums" club. Your friends will be more " in awe" if they come " away from it all" with an appreciation for its power rather than " hurt" and carrying a hatred for anything bigger than a 30-06 and labelling you as crazy.
If you' d be so kind, pick up a box of 200 grainers. You shoot first with the 200' s so they get some idea what they are up against. Then for each one check for stock fit and let them have a shot. Take a pair of heavy leather gloves so if any of them are tall and lanky (like myself) then you can " lengthen the stock" by wadding the gloves against their shoulder so their thumb won' t be resting on their upper lip/nose. Even with 200' s if their thumb is touching their nose/lip they won' t be happy and it' s not fair.
After every one has had a turn, then you can mention, that those bullets were the " fly-weights" and if they are interested in the " bear-bullets" they can have a turn but that things get a bit nastier. Some may have had enough with the 200' s and that' s fine. For those who continue, well they had a trial run and a " fair warning." Practical jokes with recoil are no joking matter.
When I was 16 and my brother was 25, one of his friends visited our ranch and we went shooting. Pistols, my 270, a 243, etc. and then his friend pulled out a 458 Win Mag. I was in awe and watched them carefully. It didn' t appear that the " kick" was killing them so I asked for a turn. My brother' s friend with a wry smile said, " sure." But before he could hand me the rifle, my brother took him aside and they conferred for a while and then the friend dug in the trunk of his car and pulled out some " special" ammunition. I paid little attention and they handed me the rifle ready to go. I remember how heavy the rifle was, and how hard it was to hold level compared to my 270. I knew this was some serious hardware. I mustered all the toughness I could and pulled the trigger.......
Big boom, big kick -- at least as much as a 3" 12 ga. mag -- it was a lot -- but it wasn' t bad -- I was still standing! I was on top of the world! At 16 I had handled an elephant gun! It wasn' t until decades later when I came to appreciate the true power of that cartridge with " full house" loads that I realized my brother had covered my back and insisted on lighter loads from his friend for me. It could have went the other way and it would have knocked me into the next county and to this day I would probably be preaching the evils of magnums and never have ventured beyond my 270.
Instead the opposite was true. Thru the years, I never met a gun or a cartridge that I was afraid of -- how bad could it be? -- I can handle that -- it can' t be worse than a 458! It is indeed mind over matter. Still glad my brother prevented a cruel joke. I am always glad to let others try the bigger magnums, but never with the intent of letting them get hurt.
Your call -- have fun! [>:]
Never Go Undergunned,
EKM
03-13-2003, 12:24 AM
#36
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 41
RE: 30-06 for brown bear
ELKampMaster, this is good advice! But please dont take me wrong, Im not out to hurt my friends, or play a cruel trick on them. Getting some lite loads would be a good idea though. Never thought of that! And oh by the way, thank god for your brother. Thank you for the interest in my post. DAKOTA NUT 5.
03-17-2003, 06:30 PM
#39
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 41
RE: 30-06 for brown bear
ELKampMaster, the shoot went very well. One of my friends went today to purchase the exact rifle. I myself took a vacation day today to get to know my new cannon a little better. I did however get some lite loads for the shoot over the weekend, [excellent advice, thank you]. And I am using the leftovers for practice today. The rifle is growing on me dramitically, with every squeeze of the trigger I fall in love with this caliber even more. The very first shot stunned me, but the more I shoot the better I shoot. Today I was able to place my shots within 1.5 inches, which pleased me to no end. [thats at 100 yards] I also shot 2.0 inches at 200 yards, which for me, ego aside, is very good. I doubt that this rifle will take the place of my 06, but the 338 will be going to the deer woods with me this season. I know I dont need that level of power for any deer that walks but I feel like the more I shoot, handle, and carry it the better shooter I will become. Which is the least I can do for the animals I hunt. It is almost tax time, any suggestions on A new rifle. [caliber and brand] thank you DAKOTA NUT 5.
03-17-2003, 09:33 PM
#40
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wall SD USA & Jamestown ND
Posts: 11,474
RE: 30-06 for brown bear
I found a way to deal with recoil. I was a Magnum Nut when I was younger so I soon ended up with a 416 Rem Mag. Them deer and stuff are pretty tough. Well one day when I was feeling pretty tough I took the 416 to the range and run about 40 rounds through it off the bench. After that my 338 and 300 Weatherby felt like a 243 and a 223. It was several years before the recoil of any of the little magnums concerned me at all. Recoil really is relative. If you have been pounded on by Mike Tyson then Pee Wee Hermin won' t hurt you much. Good Luck with your Hunt. Find someone with a 378 or 460 Weatherby and run a few rounds through them. Then you will really love that 338. I sold my 416 to a Gal who went to Africa and shot a lion and a cape buffalo with it, also a lepard I think. Her and her husband go to Africa one year then Brisish Columbia the next. He has a 375 H&H in some version of the model 70. I have shot that gun quite a bit. That gun however is extremly light wt for that big caliber. He has a 2X Leupold scope on it a 2x5 or something like that You can pick up the target really fast.