Seeking Advise
05-11-2008, 04:28 PM
#21
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 318
RE: Seeking Advise
ORIGINAL: Hvy69Mtl
Ok lets go this way, something to hunt deer, elk, bear ect... as well as for target... accuracy, reliability as well as whether it is close up on a good distance want a solid knock down without to much sacrificing or loss due to distance, I hope I am getting across what I am seeking as well as seeking a good model ect... I rather pay a few dollars more for something better than sacrafice quality ect for the sake of a dollar or 2.( and yes I know it is more than a dollar or two were talking about but I think we all can get the picture.)
Thanks again, all this is making me think and all.
Ok lets go this way, something to hunt deer, elk, bear ect... as well as for target... accuracy, reliability as well as whether it is close up on a good distance want a solid knock down without to much sacrificing or loss due to distance, I hope I am getting across what I am seeking as well as seeking a good model ect... I rather pay a few dollars more for something better than sacrafice quality ect for the sake of a dollar or 2.( and yes I know it is more than a dollar or two were talking about but I think we all can get the picture.)
Thanks again, all this is making me think and all.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_XCR_tactical_long_range.asp
05-11-2008, 08:08 PM
#23
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 16
RE: Seeking Advise
ORIGINAL: 700xcr
This is just the right rifle you need. Just buy it in the 300win.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_XCR_tactical_long_range.asp
ORIGINAL: Hvy69Mtl
Ok lets go this way, something to hunt deer, elk, bear ect... as well as for target... accuracy, reliability as well as whether it is close up on a good distance want a solid knock down without to much sacrificing or loss due to distance, I hope I am getting across what I am seeking as well as seeking a good model ect... I rather pay a few dollars more for something better than sacrafice quality ect for the sake of a dollar or 2.( and yes I know it is more than a dollar or two were talking about but I think we all can get the picture.)
Thanks again, all this is making me think and all.
Ok lets go this way, something to hunt deer, elk, bear ect... as well as for target... accuracy, reliability as well as whether it is close up on a good distance want a solid knock down without to much sacrificing or loss due to distance, I hope I am getting across what I am seeking as well as seeking a good model ect... I rather pay a few dollars more for something better than sacrafice quality ect for the sake of a dollar or 2.( and yes I know it is more than a dollar or two were talking about but I think we all can get the picture.)
Thanks again, all this is making me think and all.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_XCR_tactical_long_range.asp
too much, not cost wise.
05-11-2008, 09:03 PM
#24
Fork Horn
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location:
Posts: 318
RE: Seeking Advise
ORIGINAL: Hvy69Mtl
too much, not cost wise.
ORIGINAL: 700xcr
This is just the right rifle you need. Just buy it in the 300win.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_XCR_tactical_long_range.asp
ORIGINAL: Hvy69Mtl
Ok lets go this way, something to hunt deer, elk, bear ect... as well as for target... accuracy, reliability as well as whether it is close up on a good distance want a solid knock down without to much sacrificing or loss due to distance, I hope I am getting across what I am seeking as well as seeking a good model ect... I rather pay a few dollars more for something better than sacrafice quality ect for the sake of a dollar or 2.( and yes I know it is more than a dollar or two were talking about but I think we all can get the picture.) The new standard 700xcr is going to cost you $850.00 Add another $300.00 and get the 700xcr tatical that way you have a better stock,free floated fluted barrel. By the time you put a decent stock on the standard 700xcr you will be in that price range. I know because I am about to order a HS Persicion full aluminuim bedded stock for $395.00.
Thanks again, all this is making me think and all.
Ok lets go this way, something to hunt deer, elk, bear ect... as well as for target... accuracy, reliability as well as whether it is close up on a good distance want a solid knock down without to much sacrificing or loss due to distance, I hope I am getting across what I am seeking as well as seeking a good model ect... I rather pay a few dollars more for something better than sacrafice quality ect for the sake of a dollar or 2.( and yes I know it is more than a dollar or two were talking about but I think we all can get the picture.) The new standard 700xcr is going to cost you $850.00 Add another $300.00 and get the 700xcr tatical that way you have a better stock,free floated fluted barrel. By the time you put a decent stock on the standard 700xcr you will be in that price range. I know because I am about to order a HS Persicion full aluminuim bedded stock for $395.00.
Thanks again, all this is making me think and all.
http://www.remington.com/products/firearms/centerfire_rifles/model_700/model_700_XCR_tactical_long_range.asp
too much, not cost wise.
05-12-2008, 06:40 AM
#25
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
RE: Seeking Advise
"Deer, elk, bear, etc." - Many of us use the .30-06 very successfully for game up to and including moose.
"Target....accuracy, reliability, ....'solid knock down'" - You're asking a lot of a rifle and caliber.This is where your choice of calibers gets even more confusing. Do you need both? Or do you just want two rifles that'll do the same things? I'm not getting it, and apparently I'm not the only one who isn't? Simply dropping the coin isn't going to magically transform you into a long-range shooter, skill plays an enormous part.
I don't know why now other than "I wanted it", but I haveten different calibers to reload. In the process, I never really get comfortable shooting any ONE of them before the hunting season changes and I'm on to new quarry with a different caliber to remember the ballistics of. There's a reason for the saying "Beware the one-rifle shooter". If I focused on using just one caliber, I'd probably be a LOT more proficient with it than I am with ten.
If you absolutely MUST have something that burns a lot of powder, then I'd pick the .300 Win Mag over the UM. I'd probably forego the .30-06 and use the cash on a REALLY good, reliablescope (I'm not necessarily talking something you can see rocks on the moon with). However, you'll find yourself well overgunned for deer in most cases. If you're like me and can find yourself spending a half day on the range or on a prairie dog town, the .30-06 is much more forgiving.
"Target....accuracy, reliability, ....'solid knock down'" - You're asking a lot of a rifle and caliber.This is where your choice of calibers gets even more confusing. Do you need both? Or do you just want two rifles that'll do the same things? I'm not getting it, and apparently I'm not the only one who isn't? Simply dropping the coin isn't going to magically transform you into a long-range shooter, skill plays an enormous part.
I don't know why now other than "I wanted it", but I haveten different calibers to reload. In the process, I never really get comfortable shooting any ONE of them before the hunting season changes and I'm on to new quarry with a different caliber to remember the ballistics of. There's a reason for the saying "Beware the one-rifle shooter". If I focused on using just one caliber, I'd probably be a LOT more proficient with it than I am with ten.
If you absolutely MUST have something that burns a lot of powder, then I'd pick the .300 Win Mag over the UM. I'd probably forego the .30-06 and use the cash on a REALLY good, reliablescope (I'm not necessarily talking something you can see rocks on the moon with). However, you'll find yourself well overgunned for deer in most cases. If you're like me and can find yourself spending a half day on the range or on a prairie dog town, the .30-06 is much more forgiving.
05-12-2008, 09:59 AM
#26
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
Posts: 6,270
RE: Seeking Advise
ORIGINAL: Ridge Runner
ok, here are some ballistics for the 300 rum and the 30/06 to 500 yards, both rifles sighted dead on at 200 yards
300 rum 180 scirroco, 3250 fps
range drop ft/lbs
100 +1.12 3725
200 0.0 3275
300 -5.36 2869
400 -15.562504
500 -31.352030
30/06 150 gr accubond 3100 fps
range drop ft/lbs
100 +1.36 2746
200 0.0 2343
300 -6.33 1989
400 -18.45 1682
500 -37.46 1416
Now, these loads are as follows, the rum load is the listed specs from a ammo maker, I have found no reliable source who had achieved 3200 fps from a rum, andpersonaly don't believe you could achieve those velocities with a standard factory barrel without chamber mods.
The 30-06 is a proven load from more than a few shooters.
Since it takes at the most 1000 ft/lbs of energy to kill a deer or bear the 30/06 does well to about 600 yards. with about any decent bullet you'll completely penatrate a deer or bear with either load so you won't be able to use all the KE of either load, so you'll burn 75% more powder to get the bullet to do the same job with the rum.
also, according to the drops you could just use holdover to around 400 yards with either cartridge, but at 500 you'd have to dial your adjustment for proper shot placement, and the difference between the 2 is 1 MOA, yep 4 clicks on the scope.
I use a 6.5 Gibbs (mod. 270 case, necked to .264) to take deer to about 800 yards and wouldn't hesitate on a bear at the same range
Hope this puts it in perspective for you
RR
ok, here are some ballistics for the 300 rum and the 30/06 to 500 yards, both rifles sighted dead on at 200 yards
300 rum 180 scirroco, 3250 fps
range drop ft/lbs
100 +1.12 3725
200 0.0 3275
300 -5.36 2869
400 -15.562504
500 -31.352030
30/06 150 gr accubond 3100 fps
range drop ft/lbs
100 +1.36 2746
200 0.0 2343
300 -6.33 1989
400 -18.45 1682
500 -37.46 1416
Now, these loads are as follows, the rum load is the listed specs from a ammo maker, I have found no reliable source who had achieved 3200 fps from a rum, andpersonaly don't believe you could achieve those velocities with a standard factory barrel without chamber mods.
The 30-06 is a proven load from more than a few shooters.
Since it takes at the most 1000 ft/lbs of energy to kill a deer or bear the 30/06 does well to about 600 yards. with about any decent bullet you'll completely penatrate a deer or bear with either load so you won't be able to use all the KE of either load, so you'll burn 75% more powder to get the bullet to do the same job with the rum.
also, according to the drops you could just use holdover to around 400 yards with either cartridge, but at 500 you'd have to dial your adjustment for proper shot placement, and the difference between the 2 is 1 MOA, yep 4 clicks on the scope.
I use a 6.5 Gibbs (mod. 270 case, necked to .264) to take deer to about 800 yards and wouldn't hesitate on a bear at the same range
Hope this puts it in perspective for you
RR
In addition, there is NO rifle that can be fired from the shoulder that can guaranteeinstant, drops-right-there performance on game EVERY TIME. IMO, a .30/'06 is just as likely to do this at reasonable ranges as a .300 RUM, AND is MORElikely to leave you more edible meat "than what you can wipe off the bullet", as Elmer Keith used to say.
05-12-2008, 10:24 AM
#27
Join Date: May 2008
Location:
Posts: 499
RE: Seeking Advise
600 foot pounds of energy though, is a big deal...
RUM 180's vs. '06 150's are apple to oranges.
I'm more apt, personally, to dwell on the quality and performance of the bullet rather than what chambering fires it.
That said, I DOfavor the '06 over the 300 RUM for my heavy work...with a fantastic bullet in mind.
RUM 180's vs. '06 150's are apple to oranges.
I'm more apt, personally, to dwell on the quality and performance of the bullet rather than what chambering fires it.
That said, I DOfavor the '06 over the 300 RUM for my heavy work...with a fantastic bullet in mind.
05-12-2008, 12:01 PM
#28
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 12,181
RE: Seeking Advise
ANYTHING that you can kill with a .300 RUM, you can also kill with a .30-06. About the only thing the RUM does is extend your range. You just have to get a little closer with the '06.
Alternatively, the RUM has a variety of "power level" ammo, so you can buy factory rounds loaded to .30-06, .300 Win Mag, and .300 RUM power levels, which clearly makes the '06 and RUM redundant.
If it were me, I'd want more separation between calibers. It would be helpful to know more about where/what you plan to hunt. i.e. "Bears" is a pretty broad term. There's a big difference between a 150 lb black bear and brown bears or polar bears.
I don't much care for magnums, and wouldn't use one unless I was hunting for something that might consider me a food item. So, I'd probably go with something like a .243, or a .257 Roberts or a .25-06 for a "smaller" cartridge, and a .308 or .30-06 for bigger stuff, up to and including elk/moose. If I was going to limit myself to a "2 gun" arsenal, I wouldn't choose to .308 caliber cartidges...
Alternatively, the RUM has a variety of "power level" ammo, so you can buy factory rounds loaded to .30-06, .300 Win Mag, and .300 RUM power levels, which clearly makes the '06 and RUM redundant.
If it were me, I'd want more separation between calibers. It would be helpful to know more about where/what you plan to hunt. i.e. "Bears" is a pretty broad term. There's a big difference between a 150 lb black bear and brown bears or polar bears.
I don't much care for magnums, and wouldn't use one unless I was hunting for something that might consider me a food item. So, I'd probably go with something like a .243, or a .257 Roberts or a .25-06 for a "smaller" cartridge, and a .308 or .30-06 for bigger stuff, up to and including elk/moose. If I was going to limit myself to a "2 gun" arsenal, I wouldn't choose to .308 caliber cartidges...
05-12-2008, 08:54 PM
#29
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 16
RE: Seeking Advise
well then if not RUM300 how about 7mm RUM? So far input on calibers is very very informative and I thank you all. I am learning alot...
As far as I want is kinds a bad choice of wording...
What I WANT is reliability, quality and accuracy as well, most bang for the buck and knock down to a resonable distance. I do not want to take a long shot and have it not take out what I am shooting at. It maybe just something to hunt but I want it out of it's missry fast and quick and effecintly as possible.
I hope I am relaying what I am seeking.
Again this is very informative on calibers now also which model for reliability, quality and accuracy as well, most bang for the buck.
As far as I want is kinds a bad choice of wording...
What I WANT is reliability, quality and accuracy as well, most bang for the buck and knock down to a resonable distance. I do not want to take a long shot and have it not take out what I am shooting at. It maybe just something to hunt but I want it out of it's missry fast and quick and effecintly as possible.
I hope I am relaying what I am seeking.
Again this is very informative on calibers now also which model for reliability, quality and accuracy as well, most bang for the buck.
05-12-2008, 09:03 PM
#30
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2008
Posts: 16
RE: Seeking Advise
ORIGINAL: ipscshooter
ANYTHING that you can kill with a .300 RUM, you can also kill with a .30-06. About the only thing the RUM does is extend your range. You just have to get a little closer with the '06.
Alternatively, the RUM has a variety of "power level" ammo, so you can buy factory rounds loaded to .30-06, .300 Win Mag, and .300 RUM power levels, which clearly makes the '06 and RUM redundant.
If it were me, I'd want more separation between calibers. It would be helpful to know more about where/what you plan to hunt. i.e. "Bears" is a pretty broad term. There's a big difference between a 150 lb black bear and brown bears or polar bears.
I don't much care for magnums, and wouldn't use one unless I was hunting for something that might consider me a food item. So, I'd probably go with something like a .243, or a .257 Roberts or a .25-06 for a "smaller" cartridge, and a .308 or .30-06 for bigger stuff, up to and including elk/moose. If I was going to limit myself to a "2 gun" arsenal, I wouldn't choose to .308 caliber cartidges...
ANYTHING that you can kill with a .300 RUM, you can also kill with a .30-06. About the only thing the RUM does is extend your range. You just have to get a little closer with the '06.
Alternatively, the RUM has a variety of "power level" ammo, so you can buy factory rounds loaded to .30-06, .300 Win Mag, and .300 RUM power levels, which clearly makes the '06 and RUM redundant.
If it were me, I'd want more separation between calibers. It would be helpful to know more about where/what you plan to hunt. i.e. "Bears" is a pretty broad term. There's a big difference between a 150 lb black bear and brown bears or polar bears.
I don't much care for magnums, and wouldn't use one unless I was hunting for something that might consider me a food item. So, I'd probably go with something like a .243, or a .257 Roberts or a .25-06 for a "smaller" cartridge, and a .308 or .30-06 for bigger stuff, up to and including elk/moose. If I was going to limit myself to a "2 gun" arsenal, I wouldn't choose to .308 caliber cartidges...
hmmmm .264 in a 700 Sendero SF II, or a .270 in a 798 or Mountain LSSor 700 XCR. and a 30-06 in a 700 XCR or 798 or Mountain LSS.
Which would be best with which caliber if given these choices and calibers? When wanting to hunt from deer to bear( all sizes/breeds)to elk to moose?
in your opinions?