Sidearm for grizzly country revisited
02-22-2008, 03:04 PM
#11
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location:
Posts: 106
RE: Sidearm for grizzly country revisited
I had read on another site sometime back about a guy who had been mauled by a Grizz, he lives, I think, on Kodiak. Said he carries a 45/70 when fishing, but doesn't believe a pistola should be a first line of defense. Said, if given a choice between a handgun or pepper spray, he would take the pepper spray. Probably because of "how" an attack usually goes down. Me, I have my trusty ole.45.
02-22-2008, 04:16 PM
#12
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Texas - BUT NOW in Madison County, NY
Posts: 6,270
RE: Sidearm for grizzly country revisited
ORIGINAL: wyotimberghost
I appologize if it seems I'm beating a dead horse with this one, but I think it's a fascinating subject.
Since the last thread, I've been doing a lot of researching and asking around, and recently I talked to a fellow backpacker/hunter who had some interesting thoughts on the subject. He said whenever he is backpacking in grizz country in the lower 48, he carries a .357 Magnum with a 4" barrel loaded with hard cast bullets. His reasoning is that grizzlies in the rocky mountains are nowhere near the size of the coastal brown bears in AK that everyone thinks about when the subject of bear defense arises. He said A .357 will kill a bear no probelm provided the proper load, and a .357 is lighter and more compact than it's bigger bore counter parts, and thus much more easy to pack and draw. He also said that the .357 is much easier and cheaper to practice with, and thus a person is more likely to become proficient with a .357 than the larger cartridges.
Also, as someone mentioned before, experienced Alaskan guide Phil Shoemaker recommends the .357 Magnum loaded with 180 grain hard casts for grizzlies.
The more I think about it, the more I think he may be on to something. I looked, and Buffalo Bore has a .357 Magnum load pushing 180 grain hard cast bullets at 1400 fps and 783 fpe. It seems to me that such a load should have no problem penetrating bone, and a shot anywhere other than the vitals/central nervous system with a 44 or 454 will do no more to stop a bear than a 357. One would think that a good hit to the vitals or CNA with a hard cast bullet from a 357 would kill a bear just as dead as a 44 or 454.
I looked at the Taurus 454SS5M that several members recommended last time, and while it looks like an outstanding pistol, it's 10.5" long and weighs 51 oz. That seems awfully heavy and a little big to me. A .357 with a 4" barrel would be lighter and shorter and much more enjoyable to lug around on my 3 day forrays into the wilderness, not to mention cheaper to purchase and shoot. But it won't be worth it if it won't stop a grizz.
Thoughts?
I appologize if it seems I'm beating a dead horse with this one, but I think it's a fascinating subject.
Since the last thread, I've been doing a lot of researching and asking around, and recently I talked to a fellow backpacker/hunter who had some interesting thoughts on the subject. He said whenever he is backpacking in grizz country in the lower 48, he carries a .357 Magnum with a 4" barrel loaded with hard cast bullets. His reasoning is that grizzlies in the rocky mountains are nowhere near the size of the coastal brown bears in AK that everyone thinks about when the subject of bear defense arises. He said A .357 will kill a bear no probelm provided the proper load, and a .357 is lighter and more compact than it's bigger bore counter parts, and thus much more easy to pack and draw. He also said that the .357 is much easier and cheaper to practice with, and thus a person is more likely to become proficient with a .357 than the larger cartridges.
Also, as someone mentioned before, experienced Alaskan guide Phil Shoemaker recommends the .357 Magnum loaded with 180 grain hard casts for grizzlies.
The more I think about it, the more I think he may be on to something. I looked, and Buffalo Bore has a .357 Magnum load pushing 180 grain hard cast bullets at 1400 fps and 783 fpe. It seems to me that such a load should have no problem penetrating bone, and a shot anywhere other than the vitals/central nervous system with a 44 or 454 will do no more to stop a bear than a 357. One would think that a good hit to the vitals or CNA with a hard cast bullet from a 357 would kill a bear just as dead as a 44 or 454.
I looked at the Taurus 454SS5M that several members recommended last time, and while it looks like an outstanding pistol, it's 10.5" long and weighs 51 oz. That seems awfully heavy and a little big to me. A .357 with a 4" barrel would be lighter and shorter and much more enjoyable to lug around on my 3 day forrays into the wilderness, not to mention cheaper to purchase and shoot. But it won't be worth it if it won't stop a grizz.
Thoughts?
However, if I were to select a handgun for such purposes it would be at a minimum a .44 Magnum. Preferably a very heavily loaded .45 Colt, .454 Casull, .480 Ruger, or one of therecent S&W monsters (.460 or .500 S&W).
I second his recommendation for using a hard-castlead flatpoint-a Keith style or an LBT wide flatnose...... I make mine out of wheelweights and heat-treat them to a Brinell hardness of over 22.....
BTW, you will NOT get 1400 FPS out of a .357 with 180-grain bullets if it has only a 4" barrel. I know, having loaded my old 4" barrel .357 with Keith 173-grain semiwadcutters up to 1250 FPS with 15 grains of Herc. 2400. This load extruded the firing pin indentation in the center of most primers, and actually blew outa few. To get over 1400 with that bullet, the barrel would have to be an 8-3/8"er.......
02-22-2008, 07:10 PM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: central Ky
Posts: 2,867
RE: Sidearm for grizzly country revisited
At the very miminum I would feel comfortable with is a .41 mag with heavy HARD cast bullets and 4" barrel. A .44 or bigger with a 4" barrel is ideal,as long as it is loaded with HARD,nonexpanding bullets. The name of the game is to bust spine/neck/shoulder so that will put them down.
02-22-2008, 08:52 PM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: MN USA
Posts: 1,392
RE: Sidearm for grizzly country revisited
Paul, not putting yourself in that possible position of unexpectedly facing a big bear, may be an option alright, but that putsoff limits a big part of the western states, Alaska and western Canada for hunting. A greater number of people fall out of tree stands each year and are seriously injured and/or die, too. Do you say stay completely out of tree stands or any other situation that "something bad might happen"?
I think it's very prudent, if anyone is to hunt big game in western mountains to know what predators range in those areas,relative numbers, experiences of other hunters meeting big bears or cats and then prepare with whatevertools they think they will most likely be able todefend themselves, if in spite of attempting to avoid a bear or big cat encounter are faced with that.
I have carriedpepper spray designed to repell bears in the past. But as I said, wind, rain/snow and other conditions can make that ineffective, too. I started carrying a Ruger Redhawk .44mag.4" with Corbon 300 gr hard cast bullets last fall Elk hunting in Wyoming as backup to my .300 WM or in closequarterswoods where a rifle is of limited use toacquire thevitals(brain) of such a predator quickly. Neither is ideal, but I think it's worth having and I try to practice at least every other week at the range with this in mind.
I think it's very prudent, if anyone is to hunt big game in western mountains to know what predators range in those areas,relative numbers, experiences of other hunters meeting big bears or cats and then prepare with whatevertools they think they will most likely be able todefend themselves, if in spite of attempting to avoid a bear or big cat encounter are faced with that.
I have carriedpepper spray designed to repell bears in the past. But as I said, wind, rain/snow and other conditions can make that ineffective, too. I started carrying a Ruger Redhawk .44mag.4" with Corbon 300 gr hard cast bullets last fall Elk hunting in Wyoming as backup to my .300 WM or in closequarterswoods where a rifle is of limited use toacquire thevitals(brain) of such a predator quickly. Neither is ideal, but I think it's worth having and I try to practice at least every other week at the range with this in mind.
02-22-2008, 09:21 PM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
RE: Sidearm for grizzly country revisited
I'd have to go with whatever I can fire over my shoulder the best while I'm running like hell screaming "BEAR" in the opposite direction.
