do we need semi-auto rifles
02-01-2008, 11:25 AM
#21
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 6,357
RE: do we need semi-auto rifles
I have already made an irrefutable argument for "needing semi-automatic firearms" above. My buddy has a permanent injury to his wrist ligaments and is unable to cycle his pump shotgun without pain/inaccuracy. He needs to have a semi-automatic shotgun which would resolve this problem for him.
To quote King Lear "O, reason not the need!" When we start having to demonstrate to the satisfaction of others our need to own a firearm, we are no longer free men but the subjects of an oppressive, overbearing government. Further, if you aren't free, aren't you a slave?
When gun banners start rolling out the "no need" argument, be sure they couldcare less about legitimate uses, needs, purposes, etc., of gun use. They are interested in only one thing and one thing alone, banning all guns. Indeed, their strategy is to chip around the edges and whittle us down. I make no compromise on these things. It is unlikely I will ever vote for a Democrat -- no matter how abysmal the Republican candidate is on many issues -- mainly because the Democrats historically keep returning to the Gun Control flame. I'm just not going to get into the "well, you don't really need an assault rifle anyway, so my candidate X voting to ban assault rifles shouldn't trouble you and you can vote for him." In a pig's eye. I don't own an assault rifle and I don't want one, but I will not countenance banning them or other firearms. That includes semi-autos. I don't own any of those either.
To quote King Lear "O, reason not the need!" When we start having to demonstrate to the satisfaction of others our need to own a firearm, we are no longer free men but the subjects of an oppressive, overbearing government. Further, if you aren't free, aren't you a slave?
When gun banners start rolling out the "no need" argument, be sure they couldcare less about legitimate uses, needs, purposes, etc., of gun use. They are interested in only one thing and one thing alone, banning all guns. Indeed, their strategy is to chip around the edges and whittle us down. I make no compromise on these things. It is unlikely I will ever vote for a Democrat -- no matter how abysmal the Republican candidate is on many issues -- mainly because the Democrats historically keep returning to the Gun Control flame. I'm just not going to get into the "well, you don't really need an assault rifle anyway, so my candidate X voting to ban assault rifles shouldn't trouble you and you can vote for him." In a pig's eye. I don't own an assault rifle and I don't want one, but I will not countenance banning them or other firearms. That includes semi-autos. I don't own any of those either.
02-01-2008, 01:09 PM
#22
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: do we need semi-auto rifles
But as far as gun control goes, the big problem is the gun industry, not governments or gun control. Guns stick around for a long, long time, generations in fact, yet the manufacturers need to keep producing and move their stock. Where does this stock go? Well manufacturers claim they don't know and do not claim any responsability for their guns getting into illegal hands. Which is a lame excuse and they are turning a blind eye. But as far as gun control goes, the big problem is the gun industry, not governments or gun control. Guns stick around for a long, long time, generations in fact, yet the manufacturers need to keep producing and move their stock. Where does this stock go? Well manufacturers claim they don't know and do not claim any responsability for their guns getting into illegal hands. Which is a lame excuse and they are turning a blind eye. Every other company in the Western Hemisphere practically tracks their products to their market and end users and know who is doing what with their widget.. Marketing needs this info as does the Warrenty department.
If gun manufacturers showed some responsability and only sold appropriate volumes (to satisfy us, law abiting citizens) we would not need gun control laws or governement intervention. And probably most of the gun industry would collapse too.. Marketing needs this info as does the Warrenty department.
If gun manufacturers showed some responsability and only sold appropriate volumes (to satisfy us, law abiting citizens) we would not need gun control laws or governement intervention. And probably most of the gun industry would collapse too..
If gun manufacturers showed some responsability and only sold appropriate volumes (to satisfy us, law abiting citizens) we would not need gun control laws or governement intervention. And probably most of the gun industry would collapse too.. Marketing needs this info as does the Warrenty department.
If gun manufacturers showed some responsability and only sold appropriate volumes (to satisfy us, law abiting citizens) we would not need gun control laws or governement intervention. And probably most of the gun industry would collapse too..
There are 80+ million gun OWNERS in the United States. How many of thosegun ownersdo you think own just one gun? Most of them own multiple guns and a whole bunch of them own enough to fill up several safes and closets.
I am sure that General Motors, Ford, Chrysler, ets... know exactly where all of their cars are and just who exactly is driving them around. I suppose that they should be held responsible for some trailer trash POS getting into a 1974 Ford thunderbird drunk and killing a family of four. Because, as you said, Every other company in the Western Hemisphere practically tracks their products to their market and end users and know who is doing what with their widget.. Marketing needs this info as does the Warrenty department.
What a bunch of BS. I am truely sad to know that a pro-firearms person would think this way..
To answer the original question....... Yes we absolutely need semi auto firearms. It's not about hunting but about needing to overthrow a corrupt government should the need arise like it did 232 years ago.
02-01-2008, 01:25 PM
#23
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3,145
RE: do we need semi-auto rifles
I would have previously thought a semi auto was unnecessary for hunting big game, but after helping a neighbor dispatch some wild hogs on his land, I would have to argue otherwise. The vital area even on a large hog is small, and they run a good ways even when you get a good hit. Shooting semi-autos definitely helps in recovery of an animal like that. So from that standpoint, I would have to say semi-autos are needed, if you care anything about the animal. In Canada you've got moose, wolves and bears to deal with, so I would think a semi-auto or a big handgun would be a must. Something tells me the folks who want the new gun rules won't be walking around hunting in bear country.
02-01-2008, 02:15 PM
#24
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Calgary
Posts: 194
RE: do we need semi-auto rifles
ORIGINAL: Ridge Runner
ok, white, if your guns are stolen and used in a crime is it the makers fault? yours? or the criminal?
and just what is appropriate volume?
RR
ok, white, if your guns are stolen and used in a crime is it the makers fault? yours? or the criminal?
and just what is appropriate volume?
RR
If my firearms were not stored properly then I would bear some responsibility.
I fail to see the argument that all weapons used in illegal activity is stolen from households or law abiding citizens... The vast majority have been proven to be purchased.
Big Bulls.
There have been a number of Canadian journalists who have traced large orders of handguns from a manufacturer to shady store and onto gang members. Just 3 easy steps and if the manufacturer took the time to put in just minimal marketing/research effort to see where those guns go, they would quickly see which channels of distribution are shady and which are clean and perfectly legal. However the downside to responsible sales is a slump in sales. Are they willing to do that? I don’t think they’re ready.
Nothing wrong with being a pro-firearms person and a responsible one at the same time.
Again, I don’t think rigid gun control is the answer, but I do think manufacturers need to start participating in policing their own distribution networks before somebody else like Michael Moore sheds some ‘Michael Moore’ light on it.
02-01-2008, 02:55 PM
#25
Fork Horn
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Calgary
Posts: 194
RE: do we need semi-auto rifles
ORIGINAL: Ridge Runner
I didn't say they all were, but if a criminal needs a gun, he'll get it, and they can't legaly buy them so how do they get them? the prefered method to aquire guns here, find a home with a gunsafe in it, when no one is home, enter the house, wrap a chain around the safe, throw other end of chain out a window, hook it to a 4x4 and leave once out of sight, stop load the safe and go.
Besides here in this country its the batf's job to monitor the records of ffl holders, and the records have to kept for life, so when a firearm is seized in a crime they can trace it to the original owners, same guys name pops up too often then they look into it.
Don't start touting the BS which you know nothing about, you may have a ring through your nose in canada but the people of this country won't stand for it.
RR
I didn't say they all were, but if a criminal needs a gun, he'll get it, and they can't legaly buy them so how do they get them? the prefered method to aquire guns here, find a home with a gunsafe in it, when no one is home, enter the house, wrap a chain around the safe, throw other end of chain out a window, hook it to a 4x4 and leave once out of sight, stop load the safe and go.
Besides here in this country its the batf's job to monitor the records of ffl holders, and the records have to kept for life, so when a firearm is seized in a crime they can trace it to the original owners, same guys name pops up too often then they look into it.
Don't start touting the BS which you know nothing about, you may have a ring through your nose in canada but the people of this country won't stand for it.
RR
All illegal arms are stolen that way?? Well it’s simple we need 4x4 control.
Thank you ridge for telling me what I know or don’t know..
Ridge, there are ways around the system.. The corporations in your country are not corruption free, think Enron and a whole list of others!!
If gun manufacturers are turning a blind eye, you don’t want to believe or find out.
02-01-2008, 03:20 PM
#26
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Carbon County Pa.
Posts: 601
RE: do we need semi-auto rifles
ORIGINAL: Whitehorn
I personally don't need a semi-auto to hunt with and love my model 70. All of us in our group do not hunt with a chambered round.. Too many close calls and as my buddy says, "there's nothing safe about a safety".. If anybody hunted with a semi in our group I would hope that out of courtesy to our safety standards, they would not have a round chambered and ready to go.. But I don't have a problem with semis, I just prefer a bolt.
But as far as gun control goes, the big problem is the gun industry, not governments or gun control. Guns stick around for a long, long time, generations in fact, yet the manufacturers need to keep producing and move their stock. Where does this stock go? Well manufacturers claim they don't know and do not claim any responsability for their guns getting into illegal hands. Which is a lame excuse and they are turning a blind eye. Every other company in the Western Hemisphere practically tracks their products to their market and end users and know who is doing what with their widget.. Marketing needs this info as does the Warrenty department.
If gun manufacturers showed some responsability and only sold appropriate volumes (to satisfy us, law abiting citizens) we would not need gun control laws or governement intervention. And probably most of the gun industry would collapse too..
I personally don't need a semi-auto to hunt with and love my model 70. All of us in our group do not hunt with a chambered round.. Too many close calls and as my buddy says, "there's nothing safe about a safety".. If anybody hunted with a semi in our group I would hope that out of courtesy to our safety standards, they would not have a round chambered and ready to go.. But I don't have a problem with semis, I just prefer a bolt.
But as far as gun control goes, the big problem is the gun industry, not governments or gun control. Guns stick around for a long, long time, generations in fact, yet the manufacturers need to keep producing and move their stock. Where does this stock go? Well manufacturers claim they don't know and do not claim any responsability for their guns getting into illegal hands. Which is a lame excuse and they are turning a blind eye. Every other company in the Western Hemisphere practically tracks their products to their market and end users and know who is doing what with their widget.. Marketing needs this info as does the Warrenty department.
If gun manufacturers showed some responsability and only sold appropriate volumes (to satisfy us, law abiting citizens) we would not need gun control laws or governement intervention. And probably most of the gun industry would collapse too..
02-01-2008, 04:50 PM
#28
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3,145
RE: do we need semi-auto rifles
ORIGINAL: Whitehorn
If gun manufacturers are turning a blind eye, you don’t want to believe or find out.
If gun manufacturers are turning a blind eye, you don’t want to believe or find out.
02-01-2008, 06:44 PM
#30
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
RE: do we need semi-auto rifles
thats why it is great being in the usa i think were the only country with a law that says we can own guns
ORIGINAL: heinz57
thank you for the input ....here in CANADA the goverment will pass a law soon [to remove all semi- auto] i don't know why but that is the case..
ORIGINAL: Antler Eater
If you wanted to pursue it even farther you could ask the question, "Do wereally need to hunt big game with rifles period"? I mean there is always a bow.... Then we could continue and say do we really need to hunt big game at all?
It isn't a matter of need as I see it. I don't own a high power semi anymore but maybe someday I will. This type of thinking starts us down a very slippery slope. Keep chipping away at the 2nd Amendment and eventually you won't be able to own that bolt action you love (of course being from Canada that wouldn't apply).
It doesn't matter what other people use tohunt their game as long as it is done legally and ethically I wouldn't be critical.
If you wanted to pursue it even farther you could ask the question, "Do wereally need to hunt big game with rifles period"? I mean there is always a bow.... Then we could continue and say do we really need to hunt big game at all?
It isn't a matter of need as I see it. I don't own a high power semi anymore but maybe someday I will. This type of thinking starts us down a very slippery slope. Keep chipping away at the 2nd Amendment and eventually you won't be able to own that bolt action you love (of course being from Canada that wouldn't apply).
It doesn't matter what other people use tohunt their game as long as it is done legally and ethically I wouldn't be critical.