Kit guns?
01-19-2008, 06:20 PM
#11
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
RE: Kit guns?
i already looked into this and called bushmaster
the gunsmith guy i talked to said you can buy a 7.62 and install it on the 5.62 with out any changed to the lower
i think it is the 7.62 by 39 not 51
i do think you need a special mag for the 7.62 though
20" Panther™ 7.62x39mm is the dpms
the gunsmith guy i talked to said you can buy a 7.62 and install it on the 5.62 with out any changed to the lower
i think it is the 7.62 by 39 not 51
i do think you need a special mag for the 7.62 though
20" Panther™ 7.62x39mm is the dpms
ORIGINAL: homers brother
Whoa, hold on a minute there....
There's one serious technical problem with sliding a 7.62(x51 NATO) upper onto a 5.56mm lower. The magazine well. You see, the 5.56mm magazines are a good bit shorter than the 7.62mm magazines (try about 0.50", just an estimate comparing a handy M16 mag to a handy M14 mag here at my desk). Though Idon't have an upper for either handy, I'll bet you the 7.62mm upper is longer than what will fit on a 5.56mm lower thanks to a different bolt.
So, DON'T attempt to put a 7.62mm upper onto a 5.56mm lower unless you think you can jam cases 51mm (.308/7.62mm)long into magazines designed for cases 45mm long (.223/5.56mm)
Whoa, hold on a minute there....
There's one serious technical problem with sliding a 7.62(x51 NATO) upper onto a 5.56mm lower. The magazine well. You see, the 5.56mm magazines are a good bit shorter than the 7.62mm magazines (try about 0.50", just an estimate comparing a handy M16 mag to a handy M14 mag here at my desk). Though Idon't have an upper for either handy, I'll bet you the 7.62mm upper is longer than what will fit on a 5.56mm lower thanks to a different bolt.
So, DON'T attempt to put a 7.62mm upper onto a 5.56mm lower unless you think you can jam cases 51mm (.308/7.62mm)long into magazines designed for cases 45mm long (.223/5.56mm)
01-19-2008, 06:25 PM
#12
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
RE: Kit guns?
i emailed bushmaster to ask them
so is the 7.62 by 51 the 308 round so if i go with a complete 7.62x51 ar i can use 308s in it. just like the 223 5.56
so is the 7.62 by 51 the 308 round so if i go with a complete 7.62x51 ar i can use 308s in it. just like the 223 5.56
ORIGINAL: homers brother
Whoa, hold on a minute there....
There's one serious technical problem with sliding a 7.62(x51 NATO) upper onto a 5.56mm lower. The magazine well. You see, the 5.56mm magazines are a good bit shorter than the 7.62mm magazines (try about 0.50", just an estimate comparing a handy M16 mag to a handy M14 mag here at my desk). Though Idon't have an upper for either handy, I'll bet you the 7.62mm upper is longer than what will fit on a 5.56mm lower thanks to a different bolt.
So, DON'T attempt to put a 7.62mm upper onto a 5.56mm lower unless you think you can jam cases 51mm (.308/7.62mm)long into magazines designed for cases 45mm long (.223/5.56mm)
Whoa, hold on a minute there....
There's one serious technical problem with sliding a 7.62(x51 NATO) upper onto a 5.56mm lower. The magazine well. You see, the 5.56mm magazines are a good bit shorter than the 7.62mm magazines (try about 0.50", just an estimate comparing a handy M16 mag to a handy M14 mag here at my desk). Though Idon't have an upper for either handy, I'll bet you the 7.62mm upper is longer than what will fit on a 5.56mm lower thanks to a different bolt.
So, DON'T attempt to put a 7.62mm upper onto a 5.56mm lower unless you think you can jam cases 51mm (.308/7.62mm)long into magazines designed for cases 45mm long (.223/5.56mm)
01-19-2008, 06:28 PM
#13
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
RE: Kit guns?
ya i have always been told to stay away from them myself
ORIGINAL: idunno
no one is mentioning armalite. Is there a reason for that? As I've mentioned in another post, I think they're chambering the 338 Federal which is a .308 necked up. Really good round. http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=10TBN338
no one is mentioning armalite. Is there a reason for that? As I've mentioned in another post, I think they're chambering the 338 Federal which is a .308 necked up. Really good round. http://www.armalite.com/ItemForm.aspx?item=10TBN338
01-19-2008, 10:07 PM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
RE: Kit guns?
Yes, there are 7.62x39mm uppers available for standard M16/AR15 lowers. I've also seen 6.8mm SPC and 9mm uppers, not to mention the .450-class stuff.
And ALL require a different magazine than does the standard AR-15, and they are MUCH more expensive than the readily available M16/AR15 magazines. New Springfield Armory and GI M14/M1A magazines have been costing me upwards of $50 apiece lately, which seems about par with what I've seen for the 6.8, 7.62x39, and 9mm "AR" magazines. M16/AR15 magazines have been costing me half that at the most, but generally around $15 apiece. I know a couple guys who have converted standard AR magazines over to 6.8mm SPC, but those efforts have been met with fairly unpredictable results.
Yes, the 7.62x51mm NATO is commercially available in the free world as the .308 Winchester, a much more capable big-game hunting cartridge than is the 7.62x39mm Russian. Given the greater expense of an AR-patterned .308 rifle by itself though, a guy would be hard-pressed to beat paying less fora good bolt gun and good glass.
And ALL require a different magazine than does the standard AR-15, and they are MUCH more expensive than the readily available M16/AR15 magazines. New Springfield Armory and GI M14/M1A magazines have been costing me upwards of $50 apiece lately, which seems about par with what I've seen for the 6.8, 7.62x39, and 9mm "AR" magazines. M16/AR15 magazines have been costing me half that at the most, but generally around $15 apiece. I know a couple guys who have converted standard AR magazines over to 6.8mm SPC, but those efforts have been met with fairly unpredictable results.
Yes, the 7.62x51mm NATO is commercially available in the free world as the .308 Winchester, a much more capable big-game hunting cartridge than is the 7.62x39mm Russian. Given the greater expense of an AR-patterned .308 rifle by itself though, a guy would be hard-pressed to beat paying less fora good bolt gun and good glass.
01-20-2008, 11:27 AM
#15
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 6,867
RE: Kit guns?
what is the cost difference between the 7.62x39 and 7.62x51 or 308 ammo
ORIGINAL: homers brother
Yes, there are 7.62x39mm uppers available for standard M16/AR15 lowers. I've also seen 6.8mm SPC and 9mm uppers, not to mention the .450-class stuff.
And ALL require a different magazine than does the standard AR-15, and they are MUCH more expensive than the readily available M16/AR15 magazines. New Springfield Armory and GI M14/M1A magazines have been costing me upwards of $50 apiece lately, which seems about par with what I've seen for the 6.8, 7.62x39, and 9mm "AR" magazines. M16/AR15 magazines have been costing me half that at the most, but generally around $15 apiece. I know a couple guys who have converted standard AR magazines over to 6.8mm SPC, but those efforts have been met with fairly unpredictable results.
Yes, the 7.62x51mm NATO is commercially available in the free world as the .308 Winchester, a much more capable big-game hunting cartridge than is the 7.62x39mm Russian. Given the greater expense of an AR-patterned .308 rifle by itself though, a guy would be hard-pressed to beat paying less fora good bolt gun and good glass.
Yes, there are 7.62x39mm uppers available for standard M16/AR15 lowers. I've also seen 6.8mm SPC and 9mm uppers, not to mention the .450-class stuff.
And ALL require a different magazine than does the standard AR-15, and they are MUCH more expensive than the readily available M16/AR15 magazines. New Springfield Armory and GI M14/M1A magazines have been costing me upwards of $50 apiece lately, which seems about par with what I've seen for the 6.8, 7.62x39, and 9mm "AR" magazines. M16/AR15 magazines have been costing me half that at the most, but generally around $15 apiece. I know a couple guys who have converted standard AR magazines over to 6.8mm SPC, but those efforts have been met with fairly unpredictable results.
Yes, the 7.62x51mm NATO is commercially available in the free world as the .308 Winchester, a much more capable big-game hunting cartridge than is the 7.62x39mm Russian. Given the greater expense of an AR-patterned .308 rifle by itself though, a guy would be hard-pressed to beat paying less fora good bolt gun and good glass.
01-20-2008, 08:06 PM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,056
RE: Kit guns?
Couldn't tell you. I'd guess you can still find steel-cased (which is standard) Wolf 7.62x39 FMJs for less than $10 a box. Think the last time I checked on cheap Winchester .308 FMJs they were running about $15 a box (I reload them for much less).
Of course, depending on where you buy yours, the prices could be much different.
Of course, depending on where you buy yours, the prices could be much different.
