jtb1967

Forgive me for typing "bore" instead of "lands" or "grooves". While still in Swedish use if the bore measured 6.55mm, it was rebarreledor regulated to use for practice only. If your rifles are measuring that large across the grooves, then they areoutside of the diameter they were when manufactured.

Briman

6.5mm= .256"

I think you are mistaking 6.5mm for groove diameter, when it actually refers to the bore diameter in a swedish rifle. You are right about the other part of the dimension, most would have fallen in the range of 6.49-6.53mm, I personally haven't seen armorer's discs marked any smaller or larger.

What were the specs for groove diameter? Any sources? I'm only giving you my first hand observations of the rifles that I own, and the work I've done with them. My newest Swede rifle was built about 64 years ago and my oldest 109 years ago, most of them no doubt have been rebuilt once or twice, but its tough to say what has happened since their last rebuild. All I can say is that I have no complaints about how they shoot with what I shoot them with.[8D]

Briman

Another point of anecdotal data:

On the website http://castboolits.gunloads.com/, members there design a lot of moulds and put together custom orders. One of the more popular diameters for 6.5mm moulds is .268" on the driving bands, not for Carcanos, but for swedish mausers. Some moulds go all the way up to .270." There are a few that shoot them as cast at around .268" but most people size them to .266-267" to fit the swede rifles- but there are two different approaches to this, one is to use the largest bullet that can be fit in the throat and the other is to use a bullet that is at the groove diameter. I typically size the first 2 driving bands (on a loverin bullet) to .265" so that the base of the bullet is in the neck of the case and the bullet lightly engraves in the rifling. FWIW, most others are getting groove diameters in the .265-.266" range with a few actually having larger measurements.

jtb1967

I've never been much on cast bullets in rifles, but when I did quite a bit of casting for handguns I found many seemed to shoot better with the bullets just slightly oversized. Most other folks swore by bullets sized to the exact measurement of the grooves. But then there was different alloys and others issues to worry over.

As far as info on groove diameter, I don't take this guy's word for gospel on everything but here's Hawk's spin on it http://www.chuckhawks.com/swedish_mauser.htm

Here's another: http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.6-5x55-swedish-mauser.html




People tend to put value on the rifles based upon what that disk reads, but the disks are sometimes switched between rifles. Even if it is an original disk, people seem to forget that the rifle may have had thousands of rounds put through it since the last time the disk was marked!

Briman

Chuck Hawks has a semi-interesting article, unfortunately it sounds like he made things up to fill in the gaps where he didn't know what he was talking about.

The disc only tells the bore diameter, not the groove diameter.
He made the wrong assumption that his rifle had a 6.46mm bore because nothing was marked in that row on the disc. If he went on the assumptions that he did and actually checked the conversion from mms to inches, he would have probably chosen .257" bullets for reloadingThe discs actually show a range of bore diameters between 6.46 and 6.59, where usually a single number will be marked to show the measured diameter.

http://www.gunnersden.com/index.htm.6-5x55-swedish-mauser.html

This site also makes the assumption that a swedish mauser has a groove diameter of .264, if the author of the site had actually slugged a bore (very few people who load jacketed bullets ever slug a bore) he'd find that its a bit bigger than that.


I have a 'new' Husqvarna M38 in my shop waiting to be cleaned up. The rifle probably wasn't fired much since it left the factory in 1944- it does have a small scuff from brass on the feedramp, but from what I can tell, even the bolt hasn't been cycled much as the bluing on the receiver rails is only lightly scuffed instead of worn away. If I get time, I'll slug the barrel on it tonight and report my findings. Even with a rifle that's virtually brand new, I'd be shocked if the grooves slugged to .264"

Briman

I cut my teeth on reloading cast bullets in my Springfield- probably the easiest rifle on earth to shoot cast bullets through. Mauser 98s are easy too, if you can find a mould big enough (another one of those rifles where groove dimeters are much bigger than advertised, but that's another story) on both I size bullets to be .001" over groove diameter, seat the bullets to engrave in the rifling, and give them a charge of about 18gr of 2400.

The swedish mausers were a rude awakening. Not only is it difficult to find a mould large enough in diameter (hence the custom bullet mould orders, there's even a custommould sold by Midsouth that casts at .270 called the 'cruise missile') but the barrels have a very tight twist rate and makes for finicky shooting with cast. I've tried a .265" sizer for my tighter Swede bores, but it just won't shoot and I get a ton of leading. Having the base of the bullet at .268" allows the bullet to swage into the bore.

Briman

Absolutely! I've even heard of people switching discs on rifles in order to 'upgrade' them for selling purposes, as a rifle with a 6.49-6.50 bore and a lower wear rating was supposed to be desirable for a shooter- at the time a person could buy spare discs for $2-3 ea.

jtb1967

I've sold almost all my Swedes except for six or eight Husky 38's. I kept one 96 and one 96/38 just to have an example of each. But when I was selling off the 96's and 06/38's, the prices they brought varied quite a bit based merely on the numbers on the stock disk. I even had one fellow email me with "can you tell me how many rounds have been fired through this rifle". I don't know if he just missed the 1900 date or he assumed I was that old!

Briman

I just did a quick slug of he muzzle of my Husqvarna,didn't have time to slug the throat.

At the muzzle it was .265" in the grooves and .256" on the lands.

eldeguello

I've seen several No 4 .303's and a No. 5 Jungle carbine that shot very well with .308 bullets. In fact, we had one No. 5, which have a reputation for being pretty sloppy, that would shoot 5-shot groups of 0.5" @ 100 yards, using a load of IMR 4350 and Sierra 200-grain Game Kings at 2100 FPS. It was really a startling performance from such a clunker!

I have two different lots of military ball ammo for the 7.65 Argentine. One lot is from the Argentine State Arsenal (FM) and it is loaded with 185-grain FMJ boattail bullets. The other lot was made in Belgium by FN. It has 174 grain bullets that appear to be the same as FN used to load .303 stuff.
The bullets from BOTH of these lots of ammo mike .314". Neither shoot as accurately in my rifle as do the .308's. Since .308" bullets shoot so well, I have not bothered to even try any .311's. As far as I know, no US bullet maker makes a .314" jacketed bullet. You'd have to use cast bullets to get ones this big. I also get great performance from .308" bullets in my CZ 527 7.62X39mm, which has a .311" groove diameter.