bigcountry

Hey, just being honest. I bet most people that hunt feel this way. But growing up in Eastern Ky dirt poor, men don' t get real emotional or sensitive when animal is killed. They just butcher it and and eat it. We see alot of the wealther people who don' t need the meat so much do however. Not saying your wealthy or anything. You see killing growing up. From a baby, you see pigs getting slaughtered. You really have no remorse or feelings about it. You just do it. Your dogs are like tools. Not really companions. I have seen many a coon hunter shoot thier dog cause it don' t hunt. Guy looks at you and says don' t want to ruin the bloodline. I have changed the way I feel about this since moving around in the past 12 years with my best friend, my dog. But when I kill a deer or whatever, only thing I get emotional about is at night praying to the good lord for letting me have the fortune of getting some good meat. And I do owe him. I guess its a differnent simpler culture.

Sorry if this viewpoint bothers you. I mean, I just want to make sure the animal goes down as quickly as possible and dies painless as possible. I mean then you could talk about bow hunting and all kinds arguments could be made. But hey, I sure as heck aint' going to quit bowhunting.

bigleague

I have read this post for the last week and just want to put my two cents worth in. maybe just a penny cuz i am new. I was just introduced to Hunting this past year, have been around guns but never killed anything but a bird or a rabbit while out shooting. I thought that killing the larger animals would bother me a little and my main concern was and still is for a humane kill. I dont think it has to be a heart/lung shot, from what i understand there are many areas that would give just as quick results. If i " took out" the shoulders and the deer went right down and died i would feel like i was sucessful in completing a humane kill. I told my buddy i just dont want to see the deer get shot and run and flop around for 10 min before it dies.

One guy that went with us last year shot the feet off of this doe, then gut shot the poor thing before my buddy finally said enough... and took a head shot and killed it. I know he is a very poor shot but he doesnt care. Like i said i just want a quick kill.

I fish like crazy off the shores of mexico and not too sure if the same rules apply to hunting, but if i want a great eating fish i want them in the boat and dead with the blood out as soon as possibe. So a quick kill is very important at least to me

SMITTY03

I like to save whatever I can. If I don' t eat it, I know someone who does. I' m not crazy about the shoulder meat, but i' m not going to intentionally waste it. If a deer is within 80 to 100 yards, I' m shooting for the eyeballs.

skeeter 7MM

In BC defense he definately cares about the animal he hunts. He stated in last post " quick and painless death" that shows compassion towards the animals he chases. So he feels he " OWES' this to the animal.

As far as worrying about a few pieces of meat, well c' mom guys. I have heard this I never wanted to waste any meat thing, so I aimed for the " Noggin" and missed so now I have a deer running around without a JAW....well that is respect for the animal you chase. To me that is greed and foolish. Unless you can hit a quarter at that distance you have no business taking a head over a shoulder or rib shot. To me that shows about as much respect to the animals as shooting it in the guts. Oh sure you can say I have shot " blah, blah, blah" and no problems...good like I said " YOU CAN HIT A QUARTER" go right ahead, if not stick to shoulder/rib.

BTW, this year I tired some ribs on a deer...they were fantastic, also made some neck stew....great and finally just last night deer tenderloins raped in bacon on the BBQ....um um delish! Point all very good meat in my opinion, some waste is inevitable and I don' t let it bother me one bid. I would have a much harder time putting my head on my pillow knowing I mamed or caused suffering. To me that is showing respect and what we owe...a good solid shot that caused no suffering! Just like BC said!

woodseye

I think bigcountrys last post said it all and pretty much says it like I feel also.Skeeter makes some good points about shot placement also,hunting out in the woods shooting often unprepared for the shot is a lot different than shooting off a bench!Shoulder and behind the shoulder shots have a bigger margin for error than head and neck shots.Not saying you shouldn' t take head and neck shots but a man has to know his limitations in that respect.Never cared myself for head shots with buck hunting as it can wreck the skull plate.


woods

SMITTY03

I' m not patting myself on the back skeeter, but I can hit a quarter and I am good at head shots. I' m no superhero or anything. All being a good shot requires is that you spend some time getting comfortable with your gun in the offseason. You can' t sight your gun in and shoot it once or twice a year and expect to pull off shots like this. If you shoot year around, a head shot is an easy task and there is no tracking.

skeeter 7MM

Smitty, all I was saying if you can, then go right ahead. All to often many think they can, but factor in many of the unkowns and just simply " CAN' T" . I can hit a quarter too, but like woodseye don' t want to mess with the skull plate on a buck. I have taken a few neck/head shots and all have worked out great. However I have seen far to many botched shots and that has lead me to preach the shoulder/rib for 95% of most hunters out there. In the end only you can make the desicion and only if you have the practice and ability...should it even be a consideration in my mind what shot to take.

My orginal intend of this post was that " owing" or " showing respect" to the animals we chase, does not come down to how much meat you saved by shot selection. 9 times out of 10 you put it through the ribs in the H/L...no meat loss and a very effective, ethical harvest.

You go ahead and hammer the head if you want...I' ll stick to the ribs on a doe and pins on big buck

GordonGekko

Plain and simple I take the best shot the animal offers me. In addition I shoot Win. Ballistic Silvertips, because my gun likes them and I don' t handload, so in a 300 WSM for deer there aren' t any better choices (the 180' s are designed for larger game than deer), but I don' t notice that they do much more damage than other bullets of similar weights at similar speeds. Yeah, I had to throw away a little shoulder meat, I didn' t enjoy it, but the deer didn' t suffer so it was a tradeoff like everything in life there is a tradeoff. Yeah, I could have saved meat by shooting a slower bullet, but when I killed the last doe of the season at over 350 yards I was glad for the power I had to ensure a clean kill. Yeah, I worry about wasting meat, that' s why I hate to track poorly hit deer. That' s why I shoot during the off season, and carry a gun that I know will exceed what I need it to do.

Gordon

woodseye

Gordon,I' ve been waiting for the soon to be released 180gr nosler paritions for my 300WSM and wondered myself how the 180BT would act at 2900-3000fps.How do you feel it works?More like a heavier designed premium bullet?What did it do on bone if you had any of your shots contact bone?Real interested in your views on this particular weight BT.I shot high shoulder and always contact bone which is why so far I have stuck with the parition design,but I do so like the accuracy of the ballistic tips!A fellow 300WSM user.

woods

GordonGekko

Well, the experience I have with the Ballistic Silvertips is limited to the 150gr variety. However, I do notice they hold together a lot better than the early ballistic tip bullets I used (in the late 80' s, and early 90' s). The wound channel was large (but not excessive) and the bullet passed completely through both shoulder blades. Maybe it held together well because the velocity had dropped, but in all of the 30 cal BST kills I have seen the bullet held together very well. I too am wondering how the 180gr. BST will perform, so far I' m leaning towards the federa 180 gr Partitions due this fall for my ' 04 Elk trip, but the 180 gr BST could be useful for some really large bodied deer.

Gordon