300 wsm or 300 mag
10-05-2007, 10:23 AM
#31
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 460
RE: 300 wsm or 300 mag
I would buy a 30'06 in a bolt and avoid the automatic. In an automatic, the short case will give you less problems and contrary to what have read the short case rounds are inherently more accurate that the longer rounds. Shorter chamber, better accuracy. Just compare a 308 to a 30'06 and you will see the evidence down range. Bullet dependent you will see a 5-10% better radial accuracy in the short actions.
I do love the 300 WMAG and use it for Caribou, Moose, Bear - but I see at long range the 300 and 325 WSM is a flatter shooting round and we have been testing well over 300 yards. The 300 WSM performed very close to the 7mmRMAG which was impressive.
I do love the 300 WMAG and use it for Caribou, Moose, Bear - but I see at long range the 300 and 325 WSM is a flatter shooting round and we have been testing well over 300 yards. The 300 WSM performed very close to the 7mmRMAG which was impressive.
10-05-2007, 10:48 AM
#32
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 42
RE: 300 wsm or 300 mag
Wow - this question, like all others regarding "which is best" has raised a lot of ire, and some B.S. too
My approach when I start looking at a new rifle is simple. I compare the calibres that seem to most likely meet my requirements, narrow it down to two, or three on an objective basis, and thenpurchase the one that seems to best meet all of my requirements. If it comes down to two that are basically identical, I take the one with the better secondary attributes - The one I know I can buy ammofor anywhere in the USA,or reload easier, or provides a wider bullet selection or etc. In other words, I apply some common sense. If both are nearly identical there, I use the old car purchasing saying - buy the one that fits your butt!
So, here goes an attempt at that [&:].
1. Ballistics (from guddersden.com) with 180 grain bullets. And yes, I know you can reload above these.
A. WSM = 2,970 fps
B. WM = 2,960
This is a push (and please, don't take me to the cleaners for 10 fps).
2. Felt recoil. The law of physics says it will be identical if both rounds are shot from identical rifles. This isa push.
3. Availability of ammunition. If wallyworld carries both, this is a push.
4. Accuracy. My experience with each is limited to having shot both exactly four times in my life, and each time out of a bolt action rifle at a 100 yard target. Each shot one inch groups or better. However, all four of the folks who let me shoot their rifles are competition shooters, and all four were more than happy with the round they were shooting. So, another push.
So Josh, it comes down to this, which round do you think fits your butt best?
As an example of my "common sense" approach,when I bought my last rifle, I needed a "mid" range caliber deer rifle.I havetwomags, and two varmiters. So, this meant something from 7-08 up through 30-06. I settled on the .308. Why - I can get performance equal to the 270 and better than 30-06 withHornady Light Magnum ammunition; less than both (but still potent on deer)in the standard loads, which my daughter can handle; better bullet selection than any of the 25, 270,7mm, or 280calibers;and rifle selection was wider. I settled on the Weatherby VanGuard SMOA.
I hope this helps some.
End of my Rant
My approach when I start looking at a new rifle is simple. I compare the calibres that seem to most likely meet my requirements, narrow it down to two, or three on an objective basis, and thenpurchase the one that seems to best meet all of my requirements. If it comes down to two that are basically identical, I take the one with the better secondary attributes - The one I know I can buy ammofor anywhere in the USA,or reload easier, or provides a wider bullet selection or etc. In other words, I apply some common sense. If both are nearly identical there, I use the old car purchasing saying - buy the one that fits your butt!So, here goes an attempt at that [&:].
1. Ballistics (from guddersden.com) with 180 grain bullets. And yes, I know you can reload above these.
A. WSM = 2,970 fps
B. WM = 2,960
This is a push (and please, don't take me to the cleaners for 10 fps).
2. Felt recoil. The law of physics says it will be identical if both rounds are shot from identical rifles. This isa push.
3. Availability of ammunition. If wallyworld carries both, this is a push.
4. Accuracy. My experience with each is limited to having shot both exactly four times in my life, and each time out of a bolt action rifle at a 100 yard target. Each shot one inch groups or better. However, all four of the folks who let me shoot their rifles are competition shooters, and all four were more than happy with the round they were shooting. So, another push.
So Josh, it comes down to this, which round do you think fits your butt best?
As an example of my "common sense" approach,when I bought my last rifle, I needed a "mid" range caliber deer rifle.I havetwomags, and two varmiters. So, this meant something from 7-08 up through 30-06. I settled on the .308. Why - I can get performance equal to the 270 and better than 30-06 withHornady Light Magnum ammunition; less than both (but still potent on deer)in the standard loads, which my daughter can handle; better bullet selection than any of the 25, 270,7mm, or 280calibers;and rifle selection was wider. I settled on the Weatherby VanGuard SMOA.
I hope this helps some.
End of my Rant
10-05-2007, 11:33 AM
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: 300 wsm or 300 mag
ORIGINAL: DGH
2. Felt recoil. The law of physics says it will be identical if both rounds are shot from identical rifles. This isa push.
2. Felt recoil. The law of physics says it will be identical if both rounds are shot from identical rifles. This isa push.
10-05-2007, 04:03 PM
#34
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 42
RE: 300 wsm or 300 mag
ORIGINAL: bigcountry
I do not want to get into an argument, so this is just a statement. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. So, to move a like sized projectile at an identical speed requires an identical amount of energy which will produce an identical and opposite reaction (recoil). Now having said that, the WM uses slower burning powder = longer recoil (maybe slower feels less?) vs WSM which uses a very fast burning posder = quicker (sharper?) recoil. But again, now I have entered into another fray that really comes down to felt recoil = different between each individual.
The truth is, until manufacturers started using some of the really "hot" powder, things like light magnum ammunition, and short magnums, etc was not possible. My real point was this: There is reallyessentiallynodifference between the two rounds in terms of ballistics, terminal energy, felt recoil, or any other truelly logical means of comparing the two.
Actually the WM will most likely kick more. I have verified this. You have to account for the wieght of the powder, and sometimes you can have 10-15gr more powder for a Winmag.
ORIGINAL: DGH
2. Felt recoil. The law of physics says it will be identical if both rounds are shot from identical rifles. This isa push.
2. Felt recoil. The law of physics says it will be identical if both rounds are shot from identical rifles. This isa push.
The truth is, until manufacturers started using some of the really "hot" powder, things like light magnum ammunition, and short magnums, etc was not possible. My real point was this: There is reallyessentiallynodifference between the two rounds in terms of ballistics, terminal energy, felt recoil, or any other truelly logical means of comparing the two.
Actually the WM will most likely kick more. I have verified this. You have to account for the wieght of the powder, and sometimes you can have 10-15gr more powder for a Winmag.
10-05-2007, 07:24 PM
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
RE: 300 wsm or 300 mag
ORIGINAL: cma3366a
DGH, what bigcountry is talking about is the aditional powder mass required by the belted mag. That additional mass creates greater (slightly) recoil for a given velocity. The WSM's do not use 'fast' powders, they use slow burning magnum powders just like the belted mags. How they maintainsimilar velocity comparedto the larger 'cubic inch' belted mags is through a pressure increase allowed by better case design, and stronger modern rifles.
Think of a .300winmag as a stock, naturally aspirated 454 chevy, and a .300WSM as a stroked 383 with a blower. A WSM is doing the samewith less volume through greater pressure within thatlimited volume.
DGH, what bigcountry is talking about is the aditional powder mass required by the belted mag. That additional mass creates greater (slightly) recoil for a given velocity. The WSM's do not use 'fast' powders, they use slow burning magnum powders just like the belted mags. How they maintainsimilar velocity comparedto the larger 'cubic inch' belted mags is through a pressure increase allowed by better case design, and stronger modern rifles.
Think of a .300winmag as a stock, naturally aspirated 454 chevy, and a .300WSM as a stroked 383 with a blower. A WSM is doing the samewith less volume through greater pressure within thatlimited volume.
10-05-2007, 10:38 PM
#37
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Camden County, Missouri
Posts: 1,019
RE: 300 wsm or 300 mag
When we look at the .300 WSM vs. .300 Win. Mag. comparison, it looks on the surface like the .300 WSM might actually outperform the .300 Win. Mag. But that's misleading. Factory pressure for the .300 Win. Mag. is 64,000 psi while the .300 WSM's pressure is 65,000 psi. That's not a huge difference. With 180-grain bullets, the race isn't even close. The .300 Win. Mag. is the hands-down winner. With 150-grain bullets, the .300 WSM shows a 10-fps advantage (3,300 fps vs. 3,290 fps). The pressure difference more than explains this trivial velocity difference. Despite claims to the contrary, the .300 WSM does not outperform the .300 Win. Mag., and it really shouldn't since it is a little bit smaller.
Read and weep!
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/techside/myth_0903/
Read and weep!
http://www.gunsandammomag.com/techside/myth_0903/
10-05-2007, 11:13 PM
#38
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Saskatchewan Canada
Posts: 6,921
RE: 300 wsm or 300 mag
I have 2 buddies who have 300 BAR's, 1 wsm and 1 wm (no boss on either). They are equal in terms of shooting paper and recoil to my shoulder (neither report back like a bolt in the same configurations). As of yet no feeding problems with either. The wsm guy bought his based on what they had in stock when he had his credit card calling him
! The wm guy bought on the account of already owning a 300wm bolt and havingall he needed to reload for it already on hand. Both guys bought the BARfor bigger game(elk, moose, bear)/forest guns, neither wear scopes in the field due to the application. Both are tickled pink and have been used to harvest game as intended.
Basically buy whichever makes your heart flutter.
! The wm guy bought on the account of already owning a 300wm bolt and havingall he needed to reload for it already on hand. Both guys bought the BARfor bigger game(elk, moose, bear)/forest guns, neither wear scopes in the field due to the application. Both are tickled pink and have been used to harvest game as intended.Basically buy whichever makes your heart flutter.
10-06-2007, 02:22 PM
#40
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 125
RE: 300 wsm or 300 mag
(TimberCreek quote: Read it and weep)
Read and weep? I dont get it! I actually read the article and I do not see the claim that at 180 gr. the race isnt even close. Am I missing something? According to Federal ballistics, the 300WSM has a slight advantage over the WM at 180 gr. Please explain your comments?
Read and weep? I dont get it! I actually read the article and I do not see the claim that at 180 gr. the race isnt even close. Am I missing something? According to Federal ballistics, the 300WSM has a slight advantage over the WM at 180 gr. Please explain your comments?