self defence gun
08-15-2007, 11:53 AM
#41
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Rivesville, WV
Posts: 3,192
RE: self defence gun
There are alot of variables involved. Probably the most important variable is personal experience. I am a point shooter, so I have a 44 Magnum with 240 grain cast bullets that are loaded down. If your are in my house, I will shoot from the hip, and you will go down fast. Period!! However I am very experienced at this. I WOULD NOT recommend this type of shooting to anyone who is not qualified to do so. And the most important part is that there are NO other friendly's in my house. If I had friendly's in my house then I would NOT use this weapon.
Paul mentioned long range, and past ten yards. IMO that scenario does not apply-we are in a home, and ten yards is a long way in a home. However he is correct about the stigmatism of shotgun's. Most people who are afraid of them have never shot them. I can assure you that any person can use a 20 gauge 870 pump, with a shorter barrel, and light loads. They just have to get over being afraid of the gun. Some people can get over it, and some people can not.
I do not like 22 pistol's, but it may be the only choice for some people. Some people are just afraid of anything else.
In summary it depends on your shooting abilty, and who else is in the house. Friend or foe. If there are no friendly's, then by all means load her up hot, and take em out. Just be sure it is not a friend you take out. Just for fun some time take a sheet of drywall to the range and watch what kind of hole buckshot will make. Then remember your son may be on the other side of the wall. Any shot fired in the air from any type weapon is going to be a major deterrent. Just make sure all user's are totally familar with your weapon of choice. Tom.
Paul mentioned long range, and past ten yards. IMO that scenario does not apply-we are in a home, and ten yards is a long way in a home. However he is correct about the stigmatism of shotgun's. Most people who are afraid of them have never shot them. I can assure you that any person can use a 20 gauge 870 pump, with a shorter barrel, and light loads. They just have to get over being afraid of the gun. Some people can get over it, and some people can not.
I do not like 22 pistol's, but it may be the only choice for some people. Some people are just afraid of anything else.
In summary it depends on your shooting abilty, and who else is in the house. Friend or foe. If there are no friendly's, then by all means load her up hot, and take em out. Just be sure it is not a friend you take out. Just for fun some time take a sheet of drywall to the range and watch what kind of hole buckshot will make. Then remember your son may be on the other side of the wall. Any shot fired in the air from any type weapon is going to be a major deterrent. Just make sure all user's are totally familar with your weapon of choice. Tom.
08-15-2007, 12:27 PM
#42
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 287
RE: self defence gun
There are clearly a lot of opinions on the best weapon for self defense in the home and in different situations every one of them is best.
But i'm gonna quote from another post (Reloading--Best bullet for bear country: grizz007) "the best weapon is between your ears.)
I think what he means isyou need to makethe right decisions before the confrontation so you can avoid the confrontation. Or if you can't avoid it, you can at least survive it.
Do you have a safe room? complete with a phone, a weapon and a first aid kit? Can you turn on all the lights in your house from your bedroom? What about a strategically placed mirror that lets you see the open areas in your house without exposing yourself?
Do you have an escape route? does your family know the drill in the event of an emergency. where do they go, who do they call?
I'm a firm believer that the best firearm is the one that will hit what you shoot at. If you're more comfortable with a handgun than a long gun then thats your best choice.
But don't think that having a gun on the nite stand makes you safe. It might help, but it's just one piece of the puzzle.
When my kids were at home, I kept a short barreled Browning light 12 loaded with 4 rounds of #4 shot. now that they're gone, I prefer my Marlin lever gun in 44mag. Short, sweet and (with 240grJHP's) very much to the point.
But i'm gonna quote from another post (Reloading--Best bullet for bear country: grizz007) "the best weapon is between your ears.)
I think what he means isyou need to makethe right decisions before the confrontation so you can avoid the confrontation. Or if you can't avoid it, you can at least survive it.
Do you have a safe room? complete with a phone, a weapon and a first aid kit? Can you turn on all the lights in your house from your bedroom? What about a strategically placed mirror that lets you see the open areas in your house without exposing yourself?
Do you have an escape route? does your family know the drill in the event of an emergency. where do they go, who do they call?
I'm a firm believer that the best firearm is the one that will hit what you shoot at. If you're more comfortable with a handgun than a long gun then thats your best choice.
But don't think that having a gun on the nite stand makes you safe. It might help, but it's just one piece of the puzzle.
When my kids were at home, I kept a short barreled Browning light 12 loaded with 4 rounds of #4 shot. now that they're gone, I prefer my Marlin lever gun in 44mag. Short, sweet and (with 240grJHP's) very much to the point.
08-15-2007, 12:36 PM
#43
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 868
RE: self defence gun
I attended a lecture a number of years back regarding home defense. The speaker (I don't remember his name) mentioned that far and away the best gun for most every home defense situation was a pump shotgun. Easy to manage, not likely to jam and downright effective for a single shot. Your loads should be such that they will cause plenty of damage without passing easily from room to room. #4 shot works very well in that respect.
A easy to handle revolver is the next best thing (.357 mag) in something comprable in a medium frame. Enough power to be effective yet easy enough to manage for people of smaller stature, and ultra simple....no saftey, no slide, nothing......point and shoot.
Last on the list was the automatics. His comments were along the lines that unless everybody who might have to use that gun was unbeleieveably proficent with the auto, then you should avoid it.
A couple of other notable points he made.
The home defense gun should be 100% stock (no modifications at all) and shooting factory loaded ammunition. It has been argued in court that by modifying the gun (trigger work, magazine well, match barrel, light, etc....) or loading the ammunition yourself that you are in essence making the gun "deadlier" as it is now a more effective weapon (a totally stupid concept if you as me) but I am not a lawyer. It also shows premeditation in that you were preparing the gun as a offensive as opposed to a defensive weapon.
Keep it stock, keep it simple and don't stop shooting until you are out of ammunition. It is relatively easy to explain away that due to the adrenaline rush that you kept shooting and didn't realize you were out of ammunition than to defend yourself in court aganst an intruder who is suing you because of the injuries "he" susained while burglarizing "your" house. If they come in through the window head first, they leave through the door feet first.
If God forbid you find yourself in a situation where there is an intruder in your house, get to yourself and your family to a safe room, use a cell phone to call the police (tell them what room you are in AND that you are armed). Wait it out and be prepared to make a stand if someone tries to get into that room.
The gun is to protect your family, NOT your stuff.....that is what the insurance is for.
A easy to handle revolver is the next best thing (.357 mag) in something comprable in a medium frame. Enough power to be effective yet easy enough to manage for people of smaller stature, and ultra simple....no saftey, no slide, nothing......point and shoot.
Last on the list was the automatics. His comments were along the lines that unless everybody who might have to use that gun was unbeleieveably proficent with the auto, then you should avoid it.
A couple of other notable points he made.
The home defense gun should be 100% stock (no modifications at all) and shooting factory loaded ammunition. It has been argued in court that by modifying the gun (trigger work, magazine well, match barrel, light, etc....) or loading the ammunition yourself that you are in essence making the gun "deadlier" as it is now a more effective weapon (a totally stupid concept if you as me) but I am not a lawyer. It also shows premeditation in that you were preparing the gun as a offensive as opposed to a defensive weapon.
Keep it stock, keep it simple and don't stop shooting until you are out of ammunition. It is relatively easy to explain away that due to the adrenaline rush that you kept shooting and didn't realize you were out of ammunition than to defend yourself in court aganst an intruder who is suing you because of the injuries "he" susained while burglarizing "your" house. If they come in through the window head first, they leave through the door feet first.
If God forbid you find yourself in a situation where there is an intruder in your house, get to yourself and your family to a safe room, use a cell phone to call the police (tell them what room you are in AND that you are armed). Wait it out and be prepared to make a stand if someone tries to get into that room.
The gun is to protect your family, NOT your stuff.....that is what the insurance is for.
08-15-2007, 04:45 PM
#45
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Inlet, New York
Posts: 640
RE: self defence gun
you cant really "tacticalize" semi autos as much, legally. in ny a semi auto cant have a pistol grip, or a mag that holds more than 3 rounds i think, im not sure. but here i cant find anything that says you cant have a pistol/folding grip, adn you can have a magazine that can hold up to 8 rds. but then again thats just new york, there tryin to spoil all the fun here.
08-15-2007, 07:45 PM
#47
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dover, PA USA
Posts: 5,497
RE: self defence gun
Man I guess I just don't understand the mindset that adding things to a weapon to make it a BETTER defensive option somehow is looked at as a liability in a shooting?
Because I have a light on my pistol somehow I'm HOPING to kill someone who happens to be in my house probably not looking to play patty cakes at 3AM.
I know this is a great country and we enjoy some serious freedoms not seen in a lot of places in the world but to be judged as possibly being in the wrong because I want EVERY advantage against someone who has just violated my rights and is a potential deadly threat?
Good Lord.
So somehow we're required in the liberal mind to level the playing field against an intruder. Lovely.
I want that unfortunate experience to be as lopsided as humanly possible and I don't care if that means parking an M1 tank in my upstairs hallway.
There isn't a person alive who isn't going to be crapping egg rolls if they have to confront an intruder with a weapon in their own house. So because someone wants to havean upper hand anddefend their home and family on THEIR terms they can be judged the bad guy.
I guess next I'll hear that if I'm a good shot and manage to center punch a bad guy on the first and only shot that I snipered him and it was obviously premeditated and I was unfairly using my deadly skill. Maybe we'll be required a certain amount of misses just to show that we were scared and that the guy had a chance.[:'(]
I'll take my chances. Hell I might just go add a lasertomorrow.[:@]
(Sorry this crap just gets under my skin)
Because I have a light on my pistol somehow I'm HOPING to kill someone who happens to be in my house probably not looking to play patty cakes at 3AM.
I know this is a great country and we enjoy some serious freedoms not seen in a lot of places in the world but to be judged as possibly being in the wrong because I want EVERY advantage against someone who has just violated my rights and is a potential deadly threat?
Good Lord.
So somehow we're required in the liberal mind to level the playing field against an intruder. Lovely.
I want that unfortunate experience to be as lopsided as humanly possible and I don't care if that means parking an M1 tank in my upstairs hallway.
There isn't a person alive who isn't going to be crapping egg rolls if they have to confront an intruder with a weapon in their own house. So because someone wants to havean upper hand anddefend their home and family on THEIR terms they can be judged the bad guy.
I guess next I'll hear that if I'm a good shot and manage to center punch a bad guy on the first and only shot that I snipered him and it was obviously premeditated and I was unfairly using my deadly skill. Maybe we'll be required a certain amount of misses just to show that we were scared and that the guy had a chance.[:'(]
I'll take my chances. Hell I might just go add a lasertomorrow.[:@]
(Sorry this crap just gets under my skin)
08-15-2007, 09:15 PM
#48
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,837
RE: self defence gun
ORIGINAL: Paul L Mohr
I don't recall seeing anyone name calling? Just giving their opinions or disagreeing with someone else's. I don't think anything said was meant to be mean.
That pistol might be ok if loaded with the pistol cartridge, if you can shoot it well. I don't think I could shoot that cartridge well in that gun though. However with a .410 load I wouldn't suggest it. They are not worth much in a long gun, let alone a pistol. At least not for self defense anyway.
It is pretty much a proven fact that long guns are easier to learn to shoot than a handgun is. Handling and shooting a handgun takes a bit more skill and practice than a shotgun or rifle. And shooting a semi auto adds another factor to it as far as knowing the weapon and how it works. If you want to use a handgun I suggest getting plenty of practice with it.
Paul
I don't recall seeing anyone name calling? Just giving their opinions or disagreeing with someone else's. I don't think anything said was meant to be mean.
That pistol might be ok if loaded with the pistol cartridge, if you can shoot it well. I don't think I could shoot that cartridge well in that gun though. However with a .410 load I wouldn't suggest it. They are not worth much in a long gun, let alone a pistol. At least not for self defense anyway.
It is pretty much a proven fact that long guns are easier to learn to shoot than a handgun is. Handling and shooting a handgun takes a bit more skill and practice than a shotgun or rifle. And shooting a semi auto adds another factor to it as far as knowing the weapon and how it works. If you want to use a handgun I suggest getting plenty of practice with it.
Paul
1. I can tell by your statement you have never seen anyone shot at close range with a 410 as most people haven't. You need to load up any 410, long gun or the Judge with 4 shot and shoot a chunk of plywood from about 14-20 feet which I think it would befair to saywould be the size of an average bedroom and I would suspect that most self defence in home shootings are much closer than that. I want to see any bad guy walk through that and still get to you.
2. Your claim that a shot gun is easier to learn to shoot than a pistol, maybe a pistol shooting slugs!!!!!!! there is no aiming with a judge any more than there is aiming in a dark room at night with a long shot gun. I worked on an ambulance for a fire dept for over 4 years and I promice you at 14-20 feet with 4 shot a 410 will kill you as dead every time as a 12 gauge.
And whoever it was that was talking about using the sound of a pump shotgun as a deterrent to the bad guy probably shouldn't have a gun as a self defence weapon in the first place because all your going to do in trying to deter someone nuts enough to break into your home with you in it in the first place is get yourself shot. Rule number 1, never pull a gun unless you plan on shooting it. You don't deter and you don't give a warning, you defend your home period, or I quote, and I love this statement because it is the only smart thing to do."YOU SHOOT THEM TO THE GROUND".
08-16-2007, 03:22 PM
#49
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blissfield MI USA
Posts: 5,293
RE: self defence gun
Your entitled to your opinion, but I own several shotguns, one of them being a .410. And I have shot a .410 pistol that was longer and heavier than the gun you are showing. Any load that would come close to being efficient enough (no such thing in a 410 in my opinion) is not easy to shoot in a pistol configuration.
And judging from what I have seen a 410 do to game I could just not with a good conscience suggest one to someone for home defense. And a pistol would be even worse in my opinion. I would seriously rather have a .22 mag.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one like you said. And I don't think I would be in the minority on that. In the end it boils down to whatever you are comfortable with.
Paul
And judging from what I have seen a 410 do to game I could just not with a good conscience suggest one to someone for home defense. And a pistol would be even worse in my opinion. I would seriously rather have a .22 mag.
I guess we will have to agree to disagree on this one like you said. And I don't think I would be in the minority on that. In the end it boils down to whatever you are comfortable with.
Paul
08-16-2007, 11:37 PM
#50
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Huntin' In Colorado
Posts: 2,910
RE: self defence gun
If a bad guy comes to my house...I have 17 rounds a waiting in 9mm. If that don't work there are a couple of other surprises for him. The biggest suprise he would get would be, when I sit down to drink a beer instead of calling an ambulance for him!!!!
Bad Guy=No Mercy!!!!!
Bad Guy=No Mercy!!!!!
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Fl Still Hunter
Firearm Review Forum
35
07-10-2008 02:40 AM
