Soilarch

You can shoot the non-AI rounds in the guns if you run out of handloads...I think this is their saving grace. However, I was wondering if you're going to handload for your 30-06, 22-250, etc...is it worth the cash to get your gun rechambered and buy yet another set of dies? Case life is usually much better with the AIs as well, correct? How does this weigh into their practicality?


And how about the Hawk cartridges? Anybody messed with those? (Google "30-06 wildcat" if you'd like to find out about them.)

Roskoe

This is a tough call. Brass life is alot better with the Ackley improveds, and you also get a pretty good bump in velocity - average is around 175 fps. But if you already have a bunch of once fired brass and the standard dies -and particularly if are already half way towards needing a new barrel, it may not be a cost effective solution.

I have three Ackley improved's: a .22-250, and .270, and 25-06. In all three instances, I started out with theAI chamber (in a new barrel)and AI dies. BTW, Lee Collet dies are very useful for neck sizing any of Ackley Improved calibers. Eventually, you are going to need a Redding body die for the specific caliber to set back the shoulder; but I do 95% of my reloading for these calibers the Lee Collet dies. They work great.

Vapodog

Ackley could have never made it in the banking business after the truth in lending laws were passed.

A third rate gunsmith he aspired to more half truths and baloney than most all the other experimenters combined.

In truth there often is nothing to very little gained in the AI rounds and in some cases they just burn more powder to achieve the same velocities.

The AI crowd has glommed onto the "case life" claim as they know they have very little other to justify their decision to make AI chambers. I'm sure that if one chambered the standard cartridge to the same tolerances of the AI custom chambers they would find that the standard cartridges do the same as the AI versions.

When I chamber my own guns I first get a FL die and FL resize a fired case and then use that case as my headspace gauge. In this manner I work the brass very little between firing and reloading and these brass also last a very long time....often times 15 reloadings.....

I just read on another forum that a guy said his 7 X 57AI Mauser shoots as fast as he 7MM Rem Mag.......think a bit before one just buys this.....does it make sense?.....what's wrong here...

There's a very good rule of thumb for these AI versions and it's this.....if the new case has X% more capacity then it will achieve .25X% greater velocity. Or if the new case has 16 % greater velocity then it will yield 4% greater velocity. FWIW 4% of 3,000 is 120'/sec....and 16% is a big jump for an AI case. Most won't make 10% increase of capacity for 2.5% increase in velocity.

If you want an AI go for it.....just go with your eyes open.....

Soilarch

Vapo...most my question on this forum are from a purely "what if" or "hey, I'm curious" standpoint. Not a "I'm considering" standpoint. I have little money...and even less guns I appreciate your input though. I'm finding alot of this gunworld will give 20 lbs to gain 12.

Roskoe, I appreciate you're personal experience as well. I ask this kind of stuff because it fascinates me. I mean, we ARE playing with EXPLOSIONS here...and that's just dang fun!! Learning how the littlest things can change the way things work.

DM

I knew PO Ackley personally, he was a great guy to chat with and had some very good idea's. I really enjoyed my time in his shop with him.

Abovethere aretwo oposeing opinions, and i can only tell you what experience i've had with AI chambers.

First off, for me theonly time i gained big was when it was with something like the 7x57 mauser, any cartridge that was pretty much maxed out in the first place (case capacity wise) didn't gain near enough for the bother of makeing cases.

For me, on 30-06 size cases, i just didn't gain all that much, and personally i wouldn't make up another one today. My feelings are, if i want more velocity, i'll just start with a bigger case in the first place.

As for case life, i really didn't notice that much improvement either. In fact, ifi didn't load to the absolute max all the time, i really didn't notice any improvement.

Ackley tested his cartridges at absolute MAX pressures, and on top of that, many times he had 28 to 30" bbls to get max Velocity...

He was a great guy and in many ways ahead of his time.

Drilling Man

ShatoDavis

I liked all the posts above, with one exception. I didn't like the comment of "third rate gunsmith", that is a personal attack and think unfair since the man can't defend himself.State your opinions, experience, hypothesis, whatever just leave the attacks out.

I think the most beneficial aspect of the ackley'sis always overlooked.... accuracy. Its a quite well known fact that"improving" orchanging shoulder angleshas agenerally beneficialaffect on accuracy. Now we are talking incremental benefits so it gets glossed over bythe "sexy" claims ofvelocity increases etc.The fact that an improved shoulder can produce 1/2 moa groups opposed to 3/4 moa (for example) isn't sexy.

Roskoe

I don't know how many other posters are speaking from actual personal experience, but I'm really sold on the AI calibers Ipersonally own and shoot. The .22-250 AI will produce 4,000 fps with a 55 grain Sierra Blitzking. I decided to load mine down to 3,850; and am getting 1/4" to 3/8" groups out of a Hart 1:14 barrel. A small lot of Remington brass that was used to initially set up the rifle has been reloaded 22 times now - no loose primer pockets or cracked necks. The .25-06 AI will make speed right at the .257 Wby factory ammo specifications. The .270 AI will produce right at what the .270 Wby factory ammo specs indicate. I did build a 30-06 AI for a customer a couple of years back that was somewhat of a disappointment, though. Not sure what the deal was with this one.

The other thing about setting up one of these guns is that not all gunsmiths know about the unique headspace issues of the AI family of cartridges. When properly chambered, the rifle should not be able to close on the "go" headspace gauge, and should close with amoderate resistance on a virgin brass case (or factory round).

I have seen some of P.O. Ackley's work - in fact, I have some of his chamber reamers. The college where he taught is only a few miles from here. He was not a "third rate" gunsmith.