mossy33oak

and to add to everybody's comments......how about repeatability? I mean Im sure there are some lucky SOB's out there that have shot a "ragged hole" with his gun, question is for it to be labeled as a tack driver it has to be able to do it time after time.......one ragged hole does not a tack driver make!!! Heck I am tickled to death if I get a gun to shoot 5 or 6 groups that measure around an inch. My 300rum ONE TIME shot a .375" group, I do not say my gun is a 3/8" shooter.....it averages .75" so that is what I say it is.

Doe Dumper

What the f does a high dollar scope help shooting targets? It either holds it zero or it doesnt. If it does, then I see no advantage except to make somebody feel a little more "smug" about having hi dollar equipment...whether they can hit the side of a house with it or not. The shooter is what matters.....the price of his gun, scope or the pickup he drove to the range means absolutely nothing. I killed over 40 deer with a Tasco world class 2x7 on a rem 700 adl synthetic .270( you know? the one with the "dime store" stock?) that was zeroedin 1996 and neveradjusted again until taken off in 2005. Lets take for example...if a guy buys a Stevens 200 for $275 and puts a $40 Bushnell or Tasco on it and shoots 1 inch groups. Another guy buys a Sako or Kimber for $1000 and pays $1200 for a scope and shoots .95 inch groups. Now just who here is better off with the exception of resale value?

Dont flame me...just my opinion

Back to the original subject I always used the term tack driver for a really accurate gun.

James B

We used to sight in our 22 rifles on thumb tacks in the wind break by the barn. To me tack driver means a rifle that shoots maybe 1/2 inch groups or a gun that shoots better than the average man can hold it even with sand bags. The best group ever shot in history was with a 222 and was five shot throug one hole. However the hole was enlarged to slightly more than the size of one 224 diamer bullet so it was not confirmed as an official one hole group..

As far as scopes go, I have seen cheap scopes shoot just as good as high dollar scopes as long as they last. The best group I have ever shot ( 5 shot), was just under 3/8 inch with a 6.5x55 Swedish mauser with 140 grain Hornady SP's and was with a straight power 4X Tasco World Class scope which is still on the rifle twenty years later. My 700 ADL Synthetic 270will shoot three shots groups under half inch with Federal Fusion 130 grains. It has a Leupold 3x9 VX-l. Which is the most money I will spend on optics. I call that rifle a tack driver because I know it would do even better if I could do it. Also because it does it every time I try it. I bought a case of that lot number of Federal Fusions. A lot of critters are not going to like that.. Good Post SJ

stubblejumper

But due to differentstandards of accuracy from different people,even that statement means very little.To some people 1-1/2" groups at 100 yards is really accurate,while other shooters don't call a gun really accurate until the groups approach 1/2" or even less.The same is true when someone claims to have killed a huge buck and then it turns out to score only 130b&c.To the person that killed it,the buck may be huge,yet to many hunters itwould not be worth wasting a tag on.

James B

I would call a rifle that always shoots under one inch a tack driver. I would consider a shooter who can do it every time a very good shot. Some days my groups are pretty good. Some days no matter what I do, I can't get in a steady position. Thats just my standard. As long as the gun does not recoil much, my wife can shoot better groups every time out than I can. If a rifle kicks her hard once, she is done with it.She is smarter than many and does not have to be macho.

stubblejumper

You are going to miss a fair number of tacks with a 1" gun,unless of course it usesvery large diameter bullets.

buckstalker1187

stubblejumper, what do you consider good groups?

90 % of people at the rod and gun club thatI attend,WISH that they could shoot sub MOA groups. Many claim to, but when I see them shoot, they are lucky to even keep it inside 4 or 5 inches at 100 yards. I can honestly say that most of the time at 125 yards, I can shoot my shotgun with winchester super x (for smoothbore) more accurately than almost all of these men can with their rifles.(and alot of these guys have more expensive guns than I do) I agree that marksmenship is a dying skill. I personally don't own any rifles that cost more than $1100.00, but I really feel that I don't need to. To me a 130 class whitetail is large and I wouldn't pass him up. And I also think putting 20 rounds inside a quarter at 156 yards is good too...I never measured a quarter...its probally bigger than an inch... so it might not be subMOA,but its still good in my book.

When you buy a jarret rifle, he garantees a rifle that will hit tennis balls consistantly at 200 yds. or else it is thrown away. His rifles are very expensive. Alot more than my savage 110. I think that I can (consistantly) hit a tennis ball at 200 yards if I can consistantly hit a quarter at 156 yds.

If these custom rifles can help someone shoot better, then let them buy it if they have the money. But honestly, sub MOA is hard to accomplish with any rifle, if the man or woman behind it isnt a sub MOA shooter.

James B

Stubble. Thats why I said that that was my opinion. I always figurethatmost rifles will shoot better off the bench than I can shoot them.. If a rifle shoots under one inch for me, it will almost always do better for a better target shooter. However if we are must be technically correct, I have never seen a rifle that would hit tack every time at 100 yards or a shooter who could it. Therefore I will stay out of further discussion on this thread.

stubblejumper

I never posted that a person needs to fire tiny groups with his hunting rifle,rather that the terms"one hole group" and "tack driver" really were humorous to me because they did not really describe a rifles accuracy potential.To accomplish that,one needs to know the average group size that a rifle will shoot at a given distance.
As for my own rifles,if they are to remain my rifles for long,they must be capable of consistant sub moa groups at 100 yards.I currently hunt with four rifles two of which I consider 1/2" rifles and the other two 5/8" rifles.I often shoot much smaller groups,but if I had to give a description of the group size that I could expect to shoot on a given day,those would be the sizes that I would give.The groups below were fired one morning with one of my 5/8" rifles.They are much smaller than 5/8" but I do not expect to match these groups on any given day.

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d128/stubblejumper11/300ultramaggroups.jpg

As for 130 class whitetails,they are far too common in my hunting area to consider wasting a tag on.

bigiron

Good shooting stubblethats very impressive is that with your 300rum.The top targets the definition of a tack driver imo

On another note I did not mean to offend anyone about how much you spent on you gun. I have seen many cheaper guns shoot very good like the savage, rem 700's, vangaurds, but never have I seen a 710 shoot very good so i used thats why I used it in my statement I shot one at the range and couldnt keep it under 2" maybe it was a lemon but I've seen a few and none shot good. They are plenty accurate for deer hunting but not my cup of tea. I will spend a little more to get a little more thats the way I am. sorry if anyones offended by me for me picking on the 710 if it works for you use it. I dont currently own a rifle that I could hit a tack with every time but I bet I could scare the hell out of it if I dont hit it. I wont keep a gun that wont shoot sub 1'' groups. I hope my new project-X gun will keep'em under 0.5. I have shot enough deer to wait for the big boys 140plus.