mauser06

in my american military expirience class today the sergeant asked if anyone knew what kind of bullet a AK-47 fired...i knew...i said 7.62x.39...he said well does anyone know in CIVILIAN language? someone said 308...isnt the 308 round DIFFRENT from a 7.62x.39? im not sure but isnt it something like 7.62x.54 or something like that? just curious...im not home to look at my cases and cases of ammuntion...yes we do alot of plinking...just wondering....i know i am RIGHT about the REAL ak-47s firing 7.62x.39...just wondering why he CALLED it a 308...just to make it simple for the guys that dont know?before that he asked who deer hunted and knew what a 308 was...so maybe he was just kinda comparing it to something they were familiar with...but he tried to make me sound WRONG...i didnt like that..i think the 7.62x.39 is much more like a 30-30 then a 308 in terms of comparing correct?? guess hes gota make it easy for the guys that arent like me...i doubt any of them kids seen a real m-16 in real life let alone fired one...the day we do that in class will be rather intersting to say the least....and the day we break them down....that will be interesting....

HighDesertWolf

um NO!!! 7.62x39mm in civilian term is also 7.62x39mm, its also known as 7.62 warsaw pact or 7.62x39mm russian. no other terms for it that I know of....

7.62 nato aka 7.62x51mm is the civilian known 308 winchester. That sergeant is a dumb @$$ just my 2 cents.

Paul L Mohr

I have heard it called a russian short or 30 russian as well. The caliber is 308, but the round is a 7.62x39. Actually the new ones are smaller, closer to a .22 cal like a 5. something. I would have to look it up.

And you are right, ballistically it is pretty close to a 30-30. The 30-30 getting the slight edge because you can shoot heavier bullets. Basically a 30-30 auto though.

And you can get AK's in different calibers, just like an AR. Like the Siaga sporters come in .410, 20 ga, 12 ga, 308, 7.62x39 and .223 I believe. I had a saiga in the 30 russian and it was not very accurate at all. I am toying with the idea of getting another in a shotgun version though.

Paul

mauser06

i knew i was right.....guess that shows his expirience...sure he might be a sergeant 1st class....but i guess i gota bring in a 308 round and a 7.62x39 round and show him the diffrence...or give him a 308 FNFAL and a AK-47 and tell him to shot BOTH with BOTH rounds so he can blow up 2 guns trying...........i know that the ak-47 is chambered in other rounds....but the ones that are commonly used that he would know about would be true AK-47s in 7.62x.39...should be an interesting semester with him...hope we dont talk guns or ammunition anymore! lol...now someones going home and putting their 308 ammo from their deer rifles into dads AK-47 and trying to fire it!! lol

HighDesertWolf

just to be a smart @$$, you should ask your seargent if he knows what caliber a AK-74 shoots LOL oh by the way a AK-74 shoots the 5.45x39mm.

eldeguello

You are correct, and that Sergeant is ignorant, as so many Sergeants tend to bewhen it comes to small arms knowledge.(I once had a sergeantargue with me over the amount of POI change you get for 1 click on a .22 target rifle micrometer rear sight at 50". He kept insisting it was 1", (obviously thinking of the amount of change you get with an M1 sight at 100 yards,) when in actuality ittakes 16 clicks on that target sight to move the POI 1" at 25 yards.

7.62X39mm is the correctdesignation for the AK-47 and SKS cartridge, andthat also is the designation used in the U.S. for the shortSoviet cartridge. Just look at the ballistics tables in a Gun Digest!!
This cartridgeis NOT a .308 in any respect, andthis round does not even use .308" diameter bullets in any factory ammunition!. It uses .310" to .313" bullets in factory ammo. The .308 Winchester round (AKA 7.62mm NATO or 7.62X51mm NATO) is a full-size, full-power high intensity rifle cartridge, as is the 7.62X54R Russian round, BUT the7.62 NATO uses .308" diameter bullets, whereas the 7.62X54R cartridge uses bullets the same diameter asthe 7.62X39mm uses- .310" up to as large as possibly .313", depending on where and when the ammo was made. Like the .308 Win., the 7.62X54R round is also a high-intensity, full-power rifle load, and it has a rimmed (R) case, as opposed to a rimless one like the 7.62X39mm and the .308 Winchester both have. In fact, there are a number of other military rifles that use bullets of close tothe same diameteras the Russian rifles-the .303 British, the 7.65X53mm Belgian/Argentine Mausers, and the 7.7 Jap, to name the most common ones-ALL use bullets ranging from.310" to as big as .314". NONE of them, including the Russian ones, are .308's!! To call any of them a .308 is asking for trouble!

To make it even more confusing, ALL so-called .30 or .300 caliber cartridges designed and made in the USA use .308" diameter bullets! The .30 US Carbine, the .308 Win., the .300 Savage, the .30/'06, the .30/40 Krag, the .30/30 Win., the .300 Win. Mag., the .300 Weatherby, the .308 Norma Magnum (a Swedish design), the .300 Win. Short magnum, the .300 REM. Ultra Mag., the.300 Rem. SHORT Ultra Mag., all the variuous & sundry other proprietary & wildcat .30's...ALL these different cartridges are loaded with.308" diameter bullets in weights ranging fom 110 grains up to 220 grains. How'd that for coinfusing??

HighDesertWolf

eldeguello,

Very thorough explanantion, i couldnt have explained it any better great post.

To add to the ignorance of seargents in this case a Marine seargent, my father. we got into a heated discussion over the 7.62mm nato he insisted that it is not the same as a 308 winchester and that I didnt know what i was talking about when i told him the 308 winchester is the civilian term of the 7.62mm nato and that they are the same cartridge. after about 20 minutes of arguing with him I told him if he actually wanted to get down right technical the .308 dia. projectile actually measures 7.82mm and that the bore dimension is where the 7.62mm comes from. to make a long story short my dad doesnt know what he was talking about and according to him neither do I..... I think i should know LOL ive been shooting NRA matches for 2 years now with a M1A and reloading 308 win for just aslong.

mauser06

thanx guys....all cleared up......and i now know more about the subject then he could ever learn...i knew all the"30 cals" fired a 308 dia bullet...i actually didnt know that the 7.62x.39fired a hair bigger bullet...interesting.....i hope we dont get into anything ELSE!! i might be bitting my tounge the rest of the semester.....told dad the story and he laughed...i wonder what his job is in the military.....now everyone else thinks their 308win deer rifle fires the same ammo as a AK-47...

JLmoore1956

Way different cartridge. The military one is called a .308 in civilian, but just 7.62 full metal jacket here. Will say however that the M60 is not used hardly anymore, went to the 240 series which is 5.56mm. No way is the Warsaw Pact cartridge the same as the .308. Side by side you would see the US cartridge is longer and the AK-47 round a little squattier! [:'(]

eldeguello

To add to the "ignorant sergeant's pool", I once heard an NCO, who was giving a class, state that the 7.62 NATO round could be fired in Warsaw Pact arms chambered for the 7.62X54R cartridge, AND THAT THE SOVIETS DESIGNED THEIR WEAPONS so NATO ammo could be used in them, but not vice-verasa, VIS: they had an 82mm mortar, which would fire our 81mm mortar ammo, but we couldn't use their 82mm rounds in our 81's.

I pointed out that while it is conceivably possible to fire a 7.62 NATO round in, say, a Moisin Nagant rifle, that I for one would not, because there would be a lot of case head unsupported by the Moisin's chamber, just asking for a ruptured case and a blown-up rifle. In addition, the Russians adopted the 7.62X54R round in 1891. They'd have needed a chrystal ball to know that in 1957 the U.S. Army would adopt the NATO round!!

(I'm surprised to see that thus far, we have not had a response from a current or former NCO defending his/her turf! Of course, there are plenty of good NCO's who know the score, and would never claim that ONE CLICK on the micrometer sight will move the bullet's POI a whole inchat 50 feet!!)