DANTHEHUNTER

I agree with Paul, I think most people see the impact of a bullet and the reaction of the animal as one movement.If you watch a slow motion video the two reactions are very noticable. Someone said something about a cement block , that is not flesh and bone , not to sound smart but that is alot of difference. I have shot deer with a .220 swift and up to a 45/70 and never knocked one off its feet like its being said, I would think a 45/70 at 30 yards 400 grain flat nosebullet at 1850fps would just about do it ,if it was possible.

ray1301

I have shot deer with my 7mm Mag and have knock the deer off it's feet. I have also shoot deer at close range (within 15 yards) with my .30-06 and watched them drop intheir tracks but not knock them off their feet. Big big difference.

bigcountry

Light bullets with low SD, might not penetrate. I have to admit 90% of us here really overanalyze the whole bullet thing. But what your talking about is extremes. A very low SD bullet like the 110 and kicking it up to 4K. What I have seen, is lack of penetration. Not always. Maybe not even half the time. But definatly have seen it. You can get by with alot with say a barnes, partition, or failsafe, or TBBC. But doing what your talking about with a weatherby can be dangerous.

You might have had great success, but so have we. Its good for us to share our experiences, but we will probably share them back.

bigcountry

So because you havn't seen it, it can't happen? I never said that concrete blocks were the same. He was talking about firewood and shareing his experience, and I was explaining, yes, it is possible and yes it does happen. He was trying to use physics to back up his claim, which didn't make any sense.

ray1301

I don't reload YET. Been thinking about it and probably will start soon.

I have found that I use different wieght bullets in my rifles based on the rifles performance and the confidense I have in the bullet load.

I rarely use my Remington 742 in places where I have to shoot over 150 yards. I have found that this rifle in the best brush gun I have ever owned. I shoot standard factory Remington 180gr rounded soft core lok's. This has been the best for me and I have only lost one deer in 34 years of hunting when using this rifle. The deer I could not find was because of a poorly placed chest shot on my part that actually went between the shoulder and the chest. We found the deer the next day but the meat was ruined because it was fairly warm. The 180 gr load has tremendous knock down power in this rifle.

On the other hand the .280 I owned I used 140gr remington pointed soft cor lok's and had very good performance with the bullet out to 400 yards with my best shot killing a deer at 375 yards. Once again shooter performance has a lot to do with it but the deer dropped dead in it tracks.

My Remington 700 BDL .30-06 I use 165gr Point Soft Cor Lok's and have had great performance out to 250 yards. No lost animals with very few running more 20 yards and a large majority dropping in their tracks.

The only time I have had poor performance was with a 30-30 using 150gr Hornady silver tips and that was back in the 70's. I got literally no bullet expansion. I shot a deer 6 times before it went down. And then I had to put one in the brain bucket before it was dead. I started out with a chest shot and then the deer ran by me and I just kept jack the shells in it. I dug out 6 bullets that expanded to a little over the original bullet size. Could've been cheap ammo I dunno.

I guess what it comes down to is what works for you, what confidence you have in the bullet weight, and your shooting skills.

Ought Six

What I mean by picked shot is there are limits to where you can shoot a critter with your chosen rifle/caliber/bullet combination. If you are willing to pass on quesionable shots, fine. I have been known to shot deer that I bounce while moving. Often, I am looking at the south end of a north bound deer. My bullet must be capable of penetrating to the vital area of the deer. Take my hunt to South Dakota. While moving into a new stand, I had to walk past quite a bit of thick brush. Really gnarly stuff. Reminded me to mountain laurel without leaves. Anyway, I bounced a really sweet buck and shot him on the 2nd hop. The bullet entered the deer just in front of his left hip and exited through his right shoulder. He died very quickly. Now, when you step up to muleys you get an increase in body size. Not a huge increase, but an increase. More body mass = more required of my bullet. Then we consider elk. Elk are pretty big critters. How about a moose? Really big. I want a bullet that will work on anything from pronghorns to moose. Since I respect the game I hunt, I feel it is my responsibility to make certain that my chosen cartridge/load will kill as cleanly as possible.

One rifle. One load. One scope. While I love buying new guns and tinkering with loads, I have decided that focussing on one rifle/load combination will provide me with the best chance to become truly deadly. Perhaps it is that fact that my Model 70 just feels perfectly bonded to me me when I am using it. "Beware of the man with one rifle, he probably knows how to use it."

Duckbutter48

Im only asking about Deer on this Post.

"What I mean by picked shot is there are limits to where you can shoot a critter with your chosen rifle/caliber/bullet combination."

I think any bullet combo will penetrate from infront of the rear hind quarter threw to the front quarter on a Deer. I dont think its ok to put a certain shot on them from one bullet but not the other. I dont think shooting a deer in the ass with any combo is ethical(I know you didnt state it was). Bad shot placement is bad shot placement. I dont think it makes a difference what bullet you have.

My point is, that if we were out hunting and I handed you a rifle to shoot a deer, would not knowing whatcaliber/bullet you had(assuming a deer rifle,deer at100 yards distance not an issue) change where your aim point was. I honestly dont thinkit would make a difference making an ethical shot.

Ought Six

An ethical shot is based strictly on your rifle/bullet combination and your shooting ability. Is it ethical for me to shoot a running deer? Depends doesnt it? Can you make the shot? Is your bullet capable of delivering a clean kill? Lets face it, some folks just arent very good shots. They may not be able to practice enough. They may have never learned how to really shoot. What is ethical for me to do may not be ethical for you to do. Simply because you draw you limit at a 100 yard shot doesnt mean I can not kill cleanly at 200 or 300 yards. If I can kill cleanly, isnt that an ethical shot? Of course it is. I never take a shot that I am not 100% sure I can make. I am certain you do the same. The difference may well lie is what we, as individuals, can do with a rifle.

If you handed me a strange rifle, I wouldnt take any shot. That wouldnt be ethical.

DM

Most any cal. with a decent weight Nosler Partition will easily do it!! For instance, 30 cal. at 30-06 velocities and a 150 grain NP will do it every time. I've seen "softer" bullets fail to do this same thing.

You can think what you want, but once i or someone else shoots at a game animial, i figure it's my duty to take what ever shot i have "includeing" straight away shots to anchor that animial.

I usedstraight awayshots on moose, caribou, brown bears, and deer. I pretty much don't use anything but NP's anymore just for "that" reason. I prefer to use a cal/load/bullet that will anchor my animial at a "worse case scenario" instead of assumeing i'll always have a "perfect" shot and everything will always go "perfectly".

My over 40 years of hunting has long since proven that"perfect" isthe wrong kind of thinking!

Drilling Man

Todd1700

I agree with Paul. All this knockdown stuff on deer is a myth. The only thing a bullet will knock down is perhaps some small target made ofsomething so dense (like steel) that the bullet can't penetrate it. I have killed a lot of deer with a rifle and seen a lot more killed with everything from a 22-250 to 300 WM. I've never seen one knocked backwards by a bullet. What I have seen is a deer occasionally drop straight down on impact. People often refer to this occurance as "knocking the deer down" but this phrase should not be taken literally. A bullets mass and frontal area is just so small that it reallyisn't able to impartmuch of a lick before it starts to either penetrate, fragment or deflect depending on the physical makeup of what it strikes. Any and all of which virtually reduce its straightline knocking ability down to a very low level despite all the footpounds of energy generated by it's high velocity.