Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
06-12-2005, 07:52 PM
#21
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wall SD USA & Jamestown ND
Posts: 11,474
RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
I think it did. It was either 1 in 12 or 1 in 14. My memory isn't what it used to be. Anyway it was to slow and allowed the 243 to blitz it even though its a better cartridge hands down.
06-12-2005, 08:17 PM
#22
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,290
RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
Well, James B, the Reloading Bench lists the original twist at 12. If Remington would have seen that as a deer cartridge from the get-go, perhaps the momentum would have gone otherwise. The casings are certainly different. If I had a need for 6, I would go to the 6mm Rem.
06-12-2005, 08:26 PM
#23
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,695
RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
ORIGINAL: James B
I think it did. It was either 1 in 12 or 1 in 14. My memory isn't what it used to be. Anyway it was to slow and allowed the 243 to blitz it even though its a better cartridge hands down.
I think it did. It was either 1 in 12 or 1 in 14. My memory isn't what it used to be. Anyway it was to slow and allowed the 243 to blitz it even though its a better cartridge hands down.
being hypocritical again ?
ORIGINAL James B
If you hand load you can get 100-150 fps more velocity from the 6MM Remington. In the field there is not enough difference to make a difference. Ammo availability would go to the 243 as its much more common. I have owned both and handloaded for both. I prefer the 6MM Remington but it really is just a matter of opinion because the they are very close in performance.
If you hand load you can get 100-150 fps more velocity from the 6MM Remington. In the field there is not enough difference to make a difference. Ammo availability would go to the 243 as its much more common. I have owned both and handloaded for both. I prefer the 6MM Remington but it really is just a matter of opinion because the they are very close in performance.
Shakes his head and walks away.............
06-12-2005, 08:52 PM
#24
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wall SD USA & Jamestown ND
Posts: 11,474
RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
Everything is a matter of opinion. That should be pretty obvious by the varity of answers to any questions ask on this forum. The 6MM has more powder capacity than the 243. To some 150 fps is important. If so then the 6MM is a better rifle when it comes to fps. Or the velocity which is so important to you. to me 100-150 fps with a bullet that small does not make much difference. In the field on game, I doubt one would notice the difference so you see it is a matter of opinion. At 400 yards or so you would brobably see 100 lb ME difference from the extra 100-150 fps. In the end, on paper there is a difference anyone can see. On an animal, probably not.
You will decide that the 243 is better so there again its a matter of opinion. We all have one and mine is as good as yours.
I am now shaking my head and I am glad you are walking away.
. I bet however that you will be baaaaaack.
Let me go one step farther here and end this debate between you and I on the 6MM's for deer. I had poor luck with them that I didn't have with the 25's on up. Period. It is my opinion and ONLY MY OPINION, that they are not deer rifles. Many use them and I sold many of them when I had my gun shop and some liked them and some traded up to bigger guns. I think that that anyone who wants to use a 243 should do so and I am sure that many will. Thats their business and if in their opinion its a good deer rifle, then great. Have at it. I don't like them and I won';t use them unless for some odd reason I had to. Nothing will probably ever change my mind or yours so I won't debate this issue any longer. They are a sour spot to me. Always will be barring some great new development in bullets. Even then the other caliber would benifit as well and there would still be a lot of better big game rifles IMO than the 243. IMO there are a lot of better rifles for deer and I will use them.
You will decide that the 243 is better so there again its a matter of opinion. We all have one and mine is as good as yours.
I am now shaking my head and I am glad you are walking away.. I bet however that you will be baaaaaack.Let me go one step farther here and end this debate between you and I on the 6MM's for deer. I had poor luck with them that I didn't have with the 25's on up. Period. It is my opinion and ONLY MY OPINION, that they are not deer rifles. Many use them and I sold many of them when I had my gun shop and some liked them and some traded up to bigger guns. I think that that anyone who wants to use a 243 should do so and I am sure that many will. Thats their business and if in their opinion its a good deer rifle, then great. Have at it. I don't like them and I won';t use them unless for some odd reason I had to. Nothing will probably ever change my mind or yours so I won't debate this issue any longer. They are a sour spot to me. Always will be barring some great new development in bullets. Even then the other caliber would benifit as well and there would still be a lot of better big game rifles IMO than the 243. IMO there are a lot of better rifles for deer and I will use them.
06-12-2005, 09:04 PM
#25
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location:
Posts: 215
RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
First off you'd better check to see if this is the PPC that uses the factory "SAKO" issued brass or one that uses the .220 Russian brass..they are "NOT" one on the same....the factory SAKO brass is slightly different from the custom brass used by most bench guns...the neck diameter of the vast majority of them is .262...that brass will not even chamber in a custom throat..it's too big and will cause all kinds of pressure problems. Be very careful with this issue...you may cause alot of damage to you and your firearm...either way it's a good buy..just make SURE which version it is...
06-12-2005, 09:16 PM
#26
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Rocky Top Tennessee
Posts: 683
RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
ORIGINAL: James B
A 6MMPPC that shoots 100 grain bullets is possible but rare. The 6MMPPC has a 1 in 14 twist compared to 1 in10 for the 243 and 6MM Remington. That twist is to slow to stabalize all 100 grain bullets and was the reason that the 244 Rem. (Renamed 6MM REM) failed while the 243 Win was a success. The 6MMPPC is a 243 caliber but uses only about half the powder charge of the 243 casing. Thus the 243 will develope an additional 400-550 fps using the same bullet weight. The PPC was developed for target shooting and makes a good varmit round. The 243 and 6mm Rem as well as the 240 Weatherby were made to be dual purpose varmit/medium game cartridge. I limit the 243 to varmits as well. However thats because I had less than ideal success with the 6's as deer rifles. When that happens you get sour on a cartridge and its hard to change an opinion based on bad expierence. I had problems with it that I have not had with the 25's.
A 6MMPPC that shoots 100 grain bullets is possible but rare. The 6MMPPC has a 1 in 14 twist compared to 1 in10 for the 243 and 6MM Remington. That twist is to slow to stabalize all 100 grain bullets and was the reason that the 244 Rem. (Renamed 6MM REM) failed while the 243 Win was a success. The 6MMPPC is a 243 caliber but uses only about half the powder charge of the 243 casing. Thus the 243 will develope an additional 400-550 fps using the same bullet weight. The PPC was developed for target shooting and makes a good varmit round. The 243 and 6mm Rem as well as the 240 Weatherby were made to be dual purpose varmit/medium game cartridge. I limit the 243 to varmits as well. However thats because I had less than ideal success with the 6's as deer rifles. When that happens you get sour on a cartridge and its hard to change an opinion based on bad expierence. I had problems with it that I have not had with the 25's.
06-13-2005, 07:48 AM
#28
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Texas
Posts: 2,695
RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
Heres a test on the twist myth between the .244 and the .243.
http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/shooting/article/0,19912,540468,00.html
http://www.outdoorlife.com/outdoor/shooting/article/0,19912,540468,00.html
06-13-2005, 12:08 PM
#29
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wall SD USA & Jamestown ND
Posts: 11,474
RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
Another opinion. However his opinion I place a high value on. I have written him many times with questions and he always answers them. He developed the 260 and is a strong supporter of the 280 and a big supporter of the 250 Savage. One of his favorite custom rifles for deer is a 250 Savage. He stepped into Jack O'Corrors shoes quite a few years back.
06-13-2005, 12:27 PM
#30
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 4,127
RE: Ok all you 6mm guru's I have a ?
Wow - that was a great article. And 100% consistent with my experience so far. My 6MM-284, despite the 300 or so fps increase in speed over the .243, was still unable to stabilize the 107 Sierra or the 105 A-Max with its 1:10 twist. I rebarreled the gun with a 1:9 twist back in January and it now shoots both of those bullets really well.