bansner alpine hunter in 300wsm
03-14-2005, 11:23 PM
#2
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Posts: 2,052
RE: bansner alpine hunter in 300wsm
Itsa "itsa your money" but personally I think the growing offering of "super expensive hunting rifles" is getting rediculous. I am not exactly familiar with the particular model you are asking about but most of the other rifles Bansner offers that I have seen on his website are in the $7k-$8K+ range. For a super metal, synthetic "hunting gun" I simply think its a ludicrous amount to spend on something that doesn't shoot that much better than guns costing 1/4 or less as much. A gun that shoots 1/2" group at 100yds is just not that hard find anymore. Most ANY modern bolt gun will shoot that with some minimal work done too them for less than a couple hundred too five hundred dollars by a decent gunsmith and some for well under $2k have that kind of accuracy right out of the box!
I have a few rifles that I have less than $1k in (not including optics) that will shoot 1/2" groups and even a 700/280 from Remington's Custom Shop that literally bores one ragged hole at 100yds with just about any ammo you wanna throw in it. I stole it from a Remington factory rep on a "divorce sale" special for only $800 back in 98. It was air gauged, built through a 7mag barrel (24" with heavier contour than stock 280 sticks), custom bedded, 40X trigger blah blah blah etc... and even if you were to get it brand new from Remington it would be well under $3k. Its a stainless/laminate and though "sharp" its not what I call a "pretty" or "artwork" caliber rifle that I would spend much more than what I paid for it.
Like I said, its your money. But I just think alot of these guys are selling something that is more salesmanship than meat (God Bless him, thats what Roy Weatherby made millions doing, dont sell the steak, sell the sizzle!) You are talking about a $8k rifle. IMHO for $8k I would rather have something like a GORGEOUS European custom (or even Bansner if he builds such rifles), or a Weatherby Crown Custom etc... Artistic pieces are at least halfway understandable. You can see a terribly beautiful stock costing $2k+ by itself. I can NEVER justify over a few hundred for even the BEST Kevlar/Carbon Fiber "superstock" like those found on Kimbers' Montana or the Remington KS Mountain Rifle. And like I said, the guns still look like anything else in the safe or at deercamp in a rack of typical hunting rigs. I suspect you are just looking for the "wow factor" at deercamp and thats fine, like I said its YOUR money. But don't expect the gun to be worth half what you paid for it in a few years time and be prepared to have your feelings hurt when someone takes a $500 Savage and shoots some handloads into a group just as well as your $8k "wondergun". You will then be kicking yourself and wondering "what the hell was I thinkin?". DONT get me wrong, Bansner builds some INCREDIBLE rifles but along with others like those from Kenny Jarrett, Dakota etc... they are extremely overpriced if you ask me. 15 or more years ago, yeah you had to go too them if you wanted a "one holer @ 100yds". But with todays CNC machines, lost foam casting techniques etc, its much easier (and WAY cheaper) for most of todays regular gun makers to make comparable products that compete fairly on paper. Of course for MUCH less green$$$
Also, dead is dead. I can put 5 shots into a 3.5" circle at 400yds with my bonestock Sako TRG-S that used to retail for under $1k (they are no longer available except in a tactical setup and even they are only around the $3k range with most of Beretta's greatest tricks peformed on them). If you want to spend $8k and have the "Oh wow" factor at camp look into a mid grade Blaser if you just want to be different.
Just my .01/2c,
RA
I have a few rifles that I have less than $1k in (not including optics) that will shoot 1/2" groups and even a 700/280 from Remington's Custom Shop that literally bores one ragged hole at 100yds with just about any ammo you wanna throw in it. I stole it from a Remington factory rep on a "divorce sale" special for only $800 back in 98. It was air gauged, built through a 7mag barrel (24" with heavier contour than stock 280 sticks), custom bedded, 40X trigger blah blah blah etc... and even if you were to get it brand new from Remington it would be well under $3k. Its a stainless/laminate and though "sharp" its not what I call a "pretty" or "artwork" caliber rifle that I would spend much more than what I paid for it.
Like I said, its your money. But I just think alot of these guys are selling something that is more salesmanship than meat (God Bless him, thats what Roy Weatherby made millions doing, dont sell the steak, sell the sizzle!) You are talking about a $8k rifle. IMHO for $8k I would rather have something like a GORGEOUS European custom (or even Bansner if he builds such rifles), or a Weatherby Crown Custom etc... Artistic pieces are at least halfway understandable. You can see a terribly beautiful stock costing $2k+ by itself. I can NEVER justify over a few hundred for even the BEST Kevlar/Carbon Fiber "superstock" like those found on Kimbers' Montana or the Remington KS Mountain Rifle. And like I said, the guns still look like anything else in the safe or at deercamp in a rack of typical hunting rigs. I suspect you are just looking for the "wow factor" at deercamp and thats fine, like I said its YOUR money. But don't expect the gun to be worth half what you paid for it in a few years time and be prepared to have your feelings hurt when someone takes a $500 Savage and shoots some handloads into a group just as well as your $8k "wondergun". You will then be kicking yourself and wondering "what the hell was I thinkin?". DONT get me wrong, Bansner builds some INCREDIBLE rifles but along with others like those from Kenny Jarrett, Dakota etc... they are extremely overpriced if you ask me. 15 or more years ago, yeah you had to go too them if you wanted a "one holer @ 100yds". But with todays CNC machines, lost foam casting techniques etc, its much easier (and WAY cheaper) for most of todays regular gun makers to make comparable products that compete fairly on paper. Of course for MUCH less green$$$
Also, dead is dead. I can put 5 shots into a 3.5" circle at 400yds with my bonestock Sako TRG-S that used to retail for under $1k (they are no longer available except in a tactical setup and even they are only around the $3k range with most of Beretta's greatest tricks peformed on them). If you want to spend $8k and have the "Oh wow" factor at camp look into a mid grade Blaser if you just want to be different.
Just my .01/2c,
RA
03-15-2005, 01:14 PM
#4
Typical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Posts: 579
RE: bansner alpine hunter in 300wsm
If your looking at this rifle from an accuracy standpoint, I would save the money and look at a Tikka, Sako, or Weatherby Vanguard Sub-Moa rifle. The Tikka and Weatherby will be well under 1K and the Sako a little under or slightly over depending on model. Buy one of these rifles and spend 1.5K on European optics. All of the rifles listed have accuracy guarantees of 1" or better.
03-15-2005, 01:28 PM
#5
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Posts: 6,471
RE: bansner alpine hunter in 300wsm
RA reminds me of a mule deer/Elk hunt in wyoming a few years back. Lawyer in camp showed up with a Jarrett chambered in 300 Kong with a Muzzlebrake topped with a Schmidet and Bender 56mm. Not sure what that rig cost back them (1998) but It had to be in the 5000 dollar range or so. Not only could that guy not shoot and had trouble sighting in the gun but my ears rang for a week after that because i didn't have enough hearing protection.
03-15-2005, 02:22 PM
#6
Typical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2003
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Posts: 579
RE: bansner alpine hunter in 300wsm
I was thinking the Alpine was a higher priced model. I see it listed at $2295. If you read the details it's simply a Howa action customized. The Weatherby Vanguard Sub-Moa is a Howa action. So if you like this style of rifle go for the Sub Moa and save alot of money. Then invest in the scope like I suggested and you will have a fine rig.
03-15-2005, 07:57 PM
#7
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 10
RE: bansner alpine hunter in 300wsm
Okay guys maybe I should explain myself further. I'm not looking to spend 5-8k on a gun at all.
Super pig at least did his homework before he attacked. I'm trying to find an ultralight mountain gun in
a synthetic stainless package that weighs in under 7 pounds that I can carry around for 2 weeks solely on foot for an elk hunt in Montana. I already have a used Weatherby Mark V I picked up for less than a grand with scope and it shoots sub moa groups. But the damn thing weighs 9 lbs. I know there are a lot of good guns out there for short money but most of them top 7.5 lbs without the scope which gets a litlle old
after a week of real hunting. I just want to get a set up that is not only ultra light but performs too. I don't mind paying a little more if I have too because it's what I want. I don't like a lot of the factory ultralights because they feel like toys in you hand. Any time you want to ultrasize it with quality for anything it seems you have to pay the price.
Okay now what do you think
Super pig at least did his homework before he attacked. I'm trying to find an ultralight mountain gun in
a synthetic stainless package that weighs in under 7 pounds that I can carry around for 2 weeks solely on foot for an elk hunt in Montana. I already have a used Weatherby Mark V I picked up for less than a grand with scope and it shoots sub moa groups. But the damn thing weighs 9 lbs. I know there are a lot of good guns out there for short money but most of them top 7.5 lbs without the scope which gets a litlle old
after a week of real hunting. I just want to get a set up that is not only ultra light but performs too. I don't mind paying a little more if I have too because it's what I want. I don't like a lot of the factory ultralights because they feel like toys in you hand. Any time you want to ultrasize it with quality for anything it seems you have to pay the price.
Okay now what do you think
03-16-2005, 02:11 AM
#8
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,052
RE: bansner alpine hunter in 300wsm
Itsa I did not in anyway "attack" you. You asked for constructive criticism of your question and thats what you got. Like I said, "Its YOUR money". This is America and if you are deadset on the Bansner then by all means go for it, he builds damn good rifles! Even at his considerably cheaper price than I thought of initially, I believe there are equal guns for 1/2 the money however.
What is your definition of "factory lightweights"? Would it be cheap lil guns like the Winchester 70 Shadows (FINE lil gun for well under $500) or would it be guns like the Kimber Montana or the Browning Titanium, both of which are under 6 pounds and cost under $1500?
For the money I think the Kimber Montana is about as good as a flatout "hunting rifle" as you will find and a HELL of a lot of gun for $1500, they shoot as good as they feel. BUT I haven't had a Browning Titanium in my hands yet. I put a box of shells through a 700 Titanium in 300RSAUM as well. I LOVE that gun also, I just would rather have the 300WSM in that gun as the RSAUMs are on their way out.
Want THE baddest lightweight, short mag on the planet? Then do a lil searching around and you might come upon a Savage stainless/synthetic in the Lazzeroni Patriot. There were less than 500 of them built, but they are AWESOME guns. I have shot one numerous times as I sold one too a good friend a few years ago and we continue to hunt together. The round has the ballistics of the 300Wby Mag, it kicks like a mule, the guns weren't built with Savage's awesome Accu-Trigger but I WILL get one for just the kind of hunting you are describing as soon as I find one. (As with my Warbird, the ammo is EXPEN$IVE but I feel its worth it for the performance these rounds carry.) The guns when new were around $500. There are a handful still on shelves of dealers here and there, I have seen them bring as much as $1k as the alternative is one of Lazzeroni's own "mountain rifles" going for nearly $6k. Bansner also builds rifles in Lazzeroni's calibers as well.
Good luck and don't feel like folks were being critical,
RA
What is your definition of "factory lightweights"? Would it be cheap lil guns like the Winchester 70 Shadows (FINE lil gun for well under $500) or would it be guns like the Kimber Montana or the Browning Titanium, both of which are under 6 pounds and cost under $1500?
For the money I think the Kimber Montana is about as good as a flatout "hunting rifle" as you will find and a HELL of a lot of gun for $1500, they shoot as good as they feel. BUT I haven't had a Browning Titanium in my hands yet. I put a box of shells through a 700 Titanium in 300RSAUM as well. I LOVE that gun also, I just would rather have the 300WSM in that gun as the RSAUMs are on their way out.
Want THE baddest lightweight, short mag on the planet? Then do a lil searching around and you might come upon a Savage stainless/synthetic in the Lazzeroni Patriot. There were less than 500 of them built, but they are AWESOME guns. I have shot one numerous times as I sold one too a good friend a few years ago and we continue to hunt together. The round has the ballistics of the 300Wby Mag, it kicks like a mule, the guns weren't built with Savage's awesome Accu-Trigger but I WILL get one for just the kind of hunting you are describing as soon as I find one. (As with my Warbird, the ammo is EXPEN$IVE but I feel its worth it for the performance these rounds carry.) The guns when new were around $500. There are a handful still on shelves of dealers here and there, I have seen them bring as much as $1k as the alternative is one of Lazzeroni's own "mountain rifles" going for nearly $6k. Bansner also builds rifles in Lazzeroni's calibers as well.
Good luck and don't feel like folks were being critical,
RA
03-16-2005, 06:06 AM
#9
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
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Posts: 6,471
RE: bansner alpine hunter in 300wsm
If anything was attacked it was the ridiculous prices some of these gunsmiths are charging. YOu want something light to pack around take RA's advice and get a Kimber Montana in 300 wsm. Oh and top it off with one of the new Leupold ultralight scopes .
03-16-2005, 06:17 AM
#10
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
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RE: bansner alpine hunter in 300wsm
Itsakeepa, i just went to his site(Bansner) and looked at the price for this rig 2295.00
I have a vangaurd in 300 wsm that I purchased for 365 dollars. I don't see this gun shooting much if any better then this vanguard. His stock retails for 210 at brownells ..cost maybe 200 to bed and finish it with Rick Bin. Trigger 100 bucks to either adjust it or replace it with a Timney.. Do you see where I am going with this? A few years ago he had the similiar rifle without the barrel work for 750..I spoke to him about it and asked him about the Howa action. I kinda got a mixed answer like " Oh its a great action for the money but didn't have the quality of US guns" I immediately wrote him off.
I have a vangaurd in 300 wsm that I purchased for 365 dollars. I don't see this gun shooting much if any better then this vanguard. His stock retails for 210 at brownells ..cost maybe 200 to bed and finish it with Rick Bin. Trigger 100 bucks to either adjust it or replace it with a Timney.. Do you see where I am going with this? A few years ago he had the similiar rifle without the barrel work for 750..I spoke to him about it and asked him about the Howa action. I kinda got a mixed answer like " Oh its a great action for the money but didn't have the quality of US guns" I immediately wrote him off.