.30-06 max distance
02-26-2005, 05:37 PM
#13
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,052
RE: .30-06 max distance
5 miles? Who told you that? I seriously doubt you could get ANYTHING including a 50BMG to go that far unless you held it at a 60 degree angle and fired it from atop Mt. Everest.
Heres a lil bit of "physics 101" that some guys might be overlooking: The pull of gravity is equal on EVERYTHING regardless of its speed. If I could bolt a rifle too a table with the line of bore perfectly parallel too level ground and its muzzle was exactly 4ft off the ground, then stand beside that gun with the exact same bullet (just a projectile, not a live round) and drop the bullet at the exact same time the bullet in the gun exited the bore... which one would hit the ground first??????????
OK call me a liar but trust me I AM CORRECT on this, they would BOTH hit the ground at exactly the same time!!! Why? Because again, gravity is constant and equal. The bullet from the gun will obviously travel farther but it will be in the air for exactly the same amount of time as the bullet I dropped from my hand.
Also think of the above test with 3 30 calibers firing the exact same projectile, one a 30/30, one a 30/06 and the other a 30/378Wby. All three bullets would again hit the ground at EXACTLY the same time. They just obviously would travel different distances during their time of flight. Aint gravity and physics fun?
LOL I can hear the physics flunkies gettin ready to type!
RA
ps
To answer the original question, I have killed appx 70 deer with a 30/06. The closest was standing directly under the tree when I fired (call it 15' from muzzle tip to the animals back) with several in the 300-350 yd range. And even fewer number fell in the 400yd+ range (about 430 was as far as I recall actually killing one with my ol 06). I know men who are competent to take deer with a 06 at 600yds. But I have other calibers and would recommend them for such ranges. With a decent 9 power scope I would say 350yds is pushing it. With a 12x and frequent practice then I would stretch that too 400yds. After that you have so much drop and wind drift to contend with that I would recommend MUCH more power in terms of both the scope AND caliber!!!
Heres a lil bit of "physics 101" that some guys might be overlooking: The pull of gravity is equal on EVERYTHING regardless of its speed. If I could bolt a rifle too a table with the line of bore perfectly parallel too level ground and its muzzle was exactly 4ft off the ground, then stand beside that gun with the exact same bullet (just a projectile, not a live round) and drop the bullet at the exact same time the bullet in the gun exited the bore... which one would hit the ground first??????????
OK call me a liar but trust me I AM CORRECT on this, they would BOTH hit the ground at exactly the same time!!! Why? Because again, gravity is constant and equal. The bullet from the gun will obviously travel farther but it will be in the air for exactly the same amount of time as the bullet I dropped from my hand.
Also think of the above test with 3 30 calibers firing the exact same projectile, one a 30/30, one a 30/06 and the other a 30/378Wby. All three bullets would again hit the ground at EXACTLY the same time. They just obviously would travel different distances during their time of flight. Aint gravity and physics fun?
LOL I can hear the physics flunkies gettin ready to type!
RA
ps
To answer the original question, I have killed appx 70 deer with a 30/06. The closest was standing directly under the tree when I fired (call it 15' from muzzle tip to the animals back) with several in the 300-350 yd range. And even fewer number fell in the 400yd+ range (about 430 was as far as I recall actually killing one with my ol 06). I know men who are competent to take deer with a 06 at 600yds. But I have other calibers and would recommend them for such ranges. With a decent 9 power scope I would say 350yds is pushing it. With a 12x and frequent practice then I would stretch that too 400yds. After that you have so much drop and wind drift to contend with that I would recommend MUCH more power in terms of both the scope AND caliber!!!
02-26-2005, 05:54 PM
#14
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 667
RE: .30-06 max distance
[quote]ORIGINAL: RedAllison
5 miles? Who told you that? I seriously doubt you could get ANYTHING including a 50BMG to go that far unless you held it at a 60 degree angle and fired it from atop Mt. Everest.
Heres a lil bit of "physics 101" that some guys might be overlooking: The pull of gravity is equal on EVERYTHING regardless of its speed. If I could bolt a rifle too a table with the line of bore perfectly parallel too level ground and its muzzle was exactly 4ft off the ground, then stand beside that gun with the exact same bullet (just a projectile, not a live round) and drop the bullet at the exact same time the bullet in the gun exited the bore... which one would hit the ground first??????????
OK call me a liar but trust me I AM CORRECT on this, they would BOTH hit the ground at exactly the same time!!! Why? Because again, gravity is constant and equal. The bullet from the gun will obviously travel farther but it will be in the air for exactly the same amount of time as the bullet I dropped from my hand.
Also think of the above test with 3 30 calibers firing the exact same projectile, one a 30/30, one a 30/06 and the other a 30/378Wby. All three bullets would again hit the ground at EXACTLY the same time. They just obviously would travel different distances during their time of flight. Aint gravity and physics fun?
LOL I can hear the physics flunkies gettin ready to type!
RA
Well said RA, remember my Dad telling me the same thing years ago and me thinking what a line of BS it was. Funny how smart he turned out to be. Being a Forward Observer for the 101st Airborne he new his stuff!!!
5 miles? Who told you that? I seriously doubt you could get ANYTHING including a 50BMG to go that far unless you held it at a 60 degree angle and fired it from atop Mt. Everest.
Heres a lil bit of "physics 101" that some guys might be overlooking: The pull of gravity is equal on EVERYTHING regardless of its speed. If I could bolt a rifle too a table with the line of bore perfectly parallel too level ground and its muzzle was exactly 4ft off the ground, then stand beside that gun with the exact same bullet (just a projectile, not a live round) and drop the bullet at the exact same time the bullet in the gun exited the bore... which one would hit the ground first??????????
OK call me a liar but trust me I AM CORRECT on this, they would BOTH hit the ground at exactly the same time!!! Why? Because again, gravity is constant and equal. The bullet from the gun will obviously travel farther but it will be in the air for exactly the same amount of time as the bullet I dropped from my hand.
Also think of the above test with 3 30 calibers firing the exact same projectile, one a 30/30, one a 30/06 and the other a 30/378Wby. All three bullets would again hit the ground at EXACTLY the same time. They just obviously would travel different distances during their time of flight. Aint gravity and physics fun?
LOL I can hear the physics flunkies gettin ready to type!
RA
Well said RA, remember my Dad telling me the same thing years ago and me thinking what a line of BS it was. Funny how smart he turned out to be. Being a Forward Observer for the 101st Airborne he new his stuff!!!
02-26-2005, 07:53 PM
#15
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: WC FL
Posts: 26,323
RE: .30-06 max distance
ORIGINAL: RedAllison
5 miles? Who told you that? I seriously doubt you could get ANYTHING including a 50BMG to go that far unless you held it at a 60 degree angle and fired it from atop Mt. Everest.
Heres a lil bit of "physics 101" that some guys might be overlooking: The pull of gravity is equal on EVERYTHING regardless of its speed. If I could bolt a rifle too a table with the line of bore perfectly parallel too level ground and its muzzle was exactly 4ft off the ground, then stand beside that gun with the exact same bullet (just a projectile, not a live round) and drop the bullet at the exact same time the bullet in the gun exited the bore... which one would hit the ground first??????????
OK call me a liar but trust me I AM CORRECT on this, they would BOTH hit the ground at exactly the same time!!! Why? Because again, gravity is constant and equal. The bullet from the gun will obviously travel farther but it will be in the air for exactly the same amount of time as the bullet I dropped from my hand.
Also think of the above test with 3 30 calibers firing the exact same projectile, one a 30/30, one a 30/06 and the other a 30/378Wby. All three bullets would again hit the ground at EXACTLY the same time. They just obviously would travel different distances during their time of flight. Aint gravity and physics fun?
LOL I can hear the physics flunkies gettin ready to type!
RA
ps
To answer the original question, I have killed appx 70 deer with a 30/06. The closest was standing directly under the tree when I fired (call it 15' from muzzle tip to the animals back) with several in the 300-350 yd range. And even fewer number fell in the 400yd+ range (about 430 was as far as I recall actually killing one with my ol 06). I know men who are competent to take deer with a 06 at 600yds. But I have other calibers and would recommend them for such ranges. With a decent 9 power scope I would say 350yds is pushing it. With a 12x and frequent practice then I would stretch that too 400yds. After that you have so much drop and wind drift to contend with that I would recommend MUCH more power in terms of both the scope AND caliber!!!
5 miles? Who told you that? I seriously doubt you could get ANYTHING including a 50BMG to go that far unless you held it at a 60 degree angle and fired it from atop Mt. Everest.
Heres a lil bit of "physics 101" that some guys might be overlooking: The pull of gravity is equal on EVERYTHING regardless of its speed. If I could bolt a rifle too a table with the line of bore perfectly parallel too level ground and its muzzle was exactly 4ft off the ground, then stand beside that gun with the exact same bullet (just a projectile, not a live round) and drop the bullet at the exact same time the bullet in the gun exited the bore... which one would hit the ground first??????????
OK call me a liar but trust me I AM CORRECT on this, they would BOTH hit the ground at exactly the same time!!! Why? Because again, gravity is constant and equal. The bullet from the gun will obviously travel farther but it will be in the air for exactly the same amount of time as the bullet I dropped from my hand.
Also think of the above test with 3 30 calibers firing the exact same projectile, one a 30/30, one a 30/06 and the other a 30/378Wby. All three bullets would again hit the ground at EXACTLY the same time. They just obviously would travel different distances during their time of flight. Aint gravity and physics fun?
LOL I can hear the physics flunkies gettin ready to type!
RA
ps
To answer the original question, I have killed appx 70 deer with a 30/06. The closest was standing directly under the tree when I fired (call it 15' from muzzle tip to the animals back) with several in the 300-350 yd range. And even fewer number fell in the 400yd+ range (about 430 was as far as I recall actually killing one with my ol 06). I know men who are competent to take deer with a 06 at 600yds. But I have other calibers and would recommend them for such ranges. With a decent 9 power scope I would say 350yds is pushing it. With a 12x and frequent practice then I would stretch that too 400yds. After that you have so much drop and wind drift to contend with that I would recommend MUCH more power in terms of both the scope AND caliber!!!
RED, who said anything about 5 miles? 1000yds is 3000ft. Have you ever been in the military? How old are you man!
I served in two branches of the military and participated in US ARMY shooting team.Have you ever even touched an
M1 Garand? I think you still practise with BB gun's!There are hunters in the field that are shooting 500-600 yards
that's 1500-1800ft...What's wrong, your calculator SCREWED-UP?
Man who talks by YARD and thinks by INCH should be kicked by FOOT!!!
02-26-2005, 09:31 PM
#17
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: WC FL
Posts: 26,323
RE: .30-06 max distance
[quote]ORIGINAL: Rebel Hog
[quote]ORIGINAL: RedAllison
5 miles? Who told you that? I seriously doubt you could get ANYTHING including a 50BMG to go that far unless you held it at a 60 degree angle and fired it from atop Mt. Everest.
Heres a lil bit of "physics 101" that some guys might be overlooking: The pull of gravity is equal on EVERYTHING regardless of its speed. If I could bolt a rifle too a table with the line of bore perfectly parallel too level ground and its muzzle was exactly 4ft off the ground, then stand beside that gun with the exact same bullet (just a projectile, not a live round) and drop the bullet at the exact same time the bullet in the gun exited the bore... which one would hit the ground first??????????
OK call me a liar but trust me I AM CORRECT on this, they would BOTH hit the ground at exactly the same time!!! Why? Because again, gravity is constant and equal. The bullet from the gun will obviously travel farther but it will be in the air for exactly the same amount of time as the bullet I dropped from my hand.
Also think of the above test with 3 30 calibers firing the exact same projectile, one a 30/30, one a 30/06 and the other a 30/378Wby. All three bullets would again hit the ground at EXACTLY the same time. They just obviously would travel different distances during their time of flight. Aint gravity and physics fun?
LOL I can hear the physics flunkies gettin ready to type!
RA
ps
To answer the original question, I have killed appx 70 deer with a 30/06. The closest was standing directly under the tree when I fired (call it 15' from muzzle tip to the animals back) with several in the 300-350 yd range. And even fewer number fell in the 400yd+ range (about 430 was as far as I recall actually killing one with my ol 06). I know men who are competent to take deer with a 06 at 600yds. But I have other calibers and would recommend them for such ranges. With a decent 9 power scope I would say 350yds is pushing it. With a 12x and frequent practice then I would stretch that too 400yds. After that you have so much drop and wind drift to contend with that I would recommend MUCH more power in terms of both the scope AND caliber!!!
[/quote
Red, VAhunter sent me an E-mail on this matter! You Replied this to me but it was Hascimaalk who Quoted this,not me!
[quote]ORIGINAL: RedAllison
5 miles? Who told you that? I seriously doubt you could get ANYTHING including a 50BMG to go that far unless you held it at a 60 degree angle and fired it from atop Mt. Everest.
Heres a lil bit of "physics 101" that some guys might be overlooking: The pull of gravity is equal on EVERYTHING regardless of its speed. If I could bolt a rifle too a table with the line of bore perfectly parallel too level ground and its muzzle was exactly 4ft off the ground, then stand beside that gun with the exact same bullet (just a projectile, not a live round) and drop the bullet at the exact same time the bullet in the gun exited the bore... which one would hit the ground first??????????
OK call me a liar but trust me I AM CORRECT on this, they would BOTH hit the ground at exactly the same time!!! Why? Because again, gravity is constant and equal. The bullet from the gun will obviously travel farther but it will be in the air for exactly the same amount of time as the bullet I dropped from my hand.
Also think of the above test with 3 30 calibers firing the exact same projectile, one a 30/30, one a 30/06 and the other a 30/378Wby. All three bullets would again hit the ground at EXACTLY the same time. They just obviously would travel different distances during their time of flight. Aint gravity and physics fun?
LOL I can hear the physics flunkies gettin ready to type!
RA
ps
To answer the original question, I have killed appx 70 deer with a 30/06. The closest was standing directly under the tree when I fired (call it 15' from muzzle tip to the animals back) with several in the 300-350 yd range. And even fewer number fell in the 400yd+ range (about 430 was as far as I recall actually killing one with my ol 06). I know men who are competent to take deer with a 06 at 600yds. But I have other calibers and would recommend them for such ranges. With a decent 9 power scope I would say 350yds is pushing it. With a 12x and frequent practice then I would stretch that too 400yds. After that you have so much drop and wind drift to contend with that I would recommend MUCH more power in terms of both the scope AND caliber!!!
[/quote
Red, VAhunter sent me an E-mail on this matter! You Replied this to me but it was Hascimaalk who Quoted this,not me!
02-27-2005, 07:43 AM
#19
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: WC FL
Posts: 26,323
RE: .30-06 max distance
ORIGINAL: gorse
RedAllison,
Unfortunately, you are incorrect in your assertion that both bullets (as described in your scenario) would strike the ground at precisely the same time. The bullet fired from the rifle would hit the ground AFTER the dropped bullet. The point at which you have erred is in not taking into account the fact that the bullet fired from the rifle has been PROPELLED. Your assertion will hold true (generally) if both objects are being acted on ONLY by the SAME forces (gravity and aerodynamic drag). The fired bullet is also being acted on by the force propelling it forward. Objects propelled at supersonic speeds (as would be most rifle bullets - at least, for the majority of the trajectory)- experience a phenomenon known as "compression lift". This is a force which actually creates some lift on the object - and therefore will increase it's flight time beyond that of a bullet acted on solely by gravity and aerodynamic forces. The same thing would be true for two pieces of paper, one crumpled into a ball and dropped....and the other folded into a paper plane and thrown. The lift created by the paper plane will keep it in the air longer - and that lift is created as a result of the propulsive force of "throwing" the plane.
RedAllison,
Unfortunately, you are incorrect in your assertion that both bullets (as described in your scenario) would strike the ground at precisely the same time. The bullet fired from the rifle would hit the ground AFTER the dropped bullet. The point at which you have erred is in not taking into account the fact that the bullet fired from the rifle has been PROPELLED. Your assertion will hold true (generally) if both objects are being acted on ONLY by the SAME forces (gravity and aerodynamic drag). The fired bullet is also being acted on by the force propelling it forward. Objects propelled at supersonic speeds (as would be most rifle bullets - at least, for the majority of the trajectory)- experience a phenomenon known as "compression lift". This is a force which actually creates some lift on the object - and therefore will increase it's flight time beyond that of a bullet acted on solely by gravity and aerodynamic forces. The same thing would be true for two pieces of paper, one crumpled into a ball and dropped....and the other folded into a paper plane and thrown. The lift created by the paper plane will keep it in the air longer - and that lift is created as a result of the propulsive force of "throwing" the plane.
If you read up, you will see who quoated this......Not me!!!!!.......Hascimsaalk!!!!
02-27-2005, 09:48 AM
#20
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,052
RE: .30-06 max distance
Rebel Hog I have no idea what you are talking about with regards too me "posting too you", the 5 mile statement wasnt even made by you so I dont understand where you confused the issue. Case closed as far as I am concerned! (And in case you were wondering, I most certainly know the difference between a yard and a foot. I knew that even before I became a member of the ROTC State qualifier rifle team many many moons ago! I put the bb guns down over 2 decades ago in favor of guns MUCH more capable! Capeesh?)
Gorse like I surmised, "the physics flunkies will be foaming at the mouth now". Compression lift? Why do you think that any aerodynamic forces on the bottom edge of the bullet pushing it upward, wouldnt also be present on the upper edge and pushing it downward??? A bullet traveling horizontal too the ground is a perfect circle (head on). The affects are negated. Bullets dont have engines, they begin to decelerate the exact instant they clear the muzzle. THATS why it is a physical impossibility for them to go in any direction other than down as gravities pull is equal and constant. If they are going upward it is a result of the line of bore being raised above that of the line of sight... or you ricocheted off of an object and we all know what that means.
Your theory of paper planes vs balls is quite another story all together un-related too this topic. Using wings to manipulate air and create lift is not at all related to bullet flight. They (bullets) dont have any sort of wings or lift creating appendages. They are coneshaped and horizontal, therefore the aerodynamic forces imparted upon the projectile are constant and equal in 360degrees. Just so you understand, if your line of bore was not raised above the line of sight you would NEVER hit your target exactly where you wanted to. The point of impact would always be lower. We must raise our line of bore above that of the line of sight to effect hits at any distance. The lines of sight and bore are straight and constant. However its the bullets path (actual) that is curved (as a result of gravities pull as we have been speaking of) and must be accounted for. Thats why you get a bullets intersection (crossing) of the line of sight twice. As sighted most typical of big game rifles, the bullet typically crosses the path around 25yds and then depending upon how high it is set to shoot generally the bullet will fall back into the "intersection with the line of sight" in the 100-300 yard range. Thus the mis-understanding of ballistics too the confused.
Again, I aint no physics professor. In fact the ONLY time I paid attention in class was when the teacher brought up "guns and bullets". Now that I think about it, that and "thermal currents" being explained in Science class is the ONLY thing I ever learned in school that helped me with hunting!!!
RA
ps
And oh yeah before I almost forgot, too Rebel Hog, "THANK YOU for your service too our country"!!!
Gorse like I surmised, "the physics flunkies will be foaming at the mouth now". Compression lift? Why do you think that any aerodynamic forces on the bottom edge of the bullet pushing it upward, wouldnt also be present on the upper edge and pushing it downward??? A bullet traveling horizontal too the ground is a perfect circle (head on). The affects are negated. Bullets dont have engines, they begin to decelerate the exact instant they clear the muzzle. THATS why it is a physical impossibility for them to go in any direction other than down as gravities pull is equal and constant. If they are going upward it is a result of the line of bore being raised above that of the line of sight... or you ricocheted off of an object and we all know what that means.
Your theory of paper planes vs balls is quite another story all together un-related too this topic. Using wings to manipulate air and create lift is not at all related to bullet flight. They (bullets) dont have any sort of wings or lift creating appendages. They are coneshaped and horizontal, therefore the aerodynamic forces imparted upon the projectile are constant and equal in 360degrees. Just so you understand, if your line of bore was not raised above the line of sight you would NEVER hit your target exactly where you wanted to. The point of impact would always be lower. We must raise our line of bore above that of the line of sight to effect hits at any distance. The lines of sight and bore are straight and constant. However its the bullets path (actual) that is curved (as a result of gravities pull as we have been speaking of) and must be accounted for. Thats why you get a bullets intersection (crossing) of the line of sight twice. As sighted most typical of big game rifles, the bullet typically crosses the path around 25yds and then depending upon how high it is set to shoot generally the bullet will fall back into the "intersection with the line of sight" in the 100-300 yard range. Thus the mis-understanding of ballistics too the confused.
Again, I aint no physics professor. In fact the ONLY time I paid attention in class was when the teacher brought up "guns and bullets". Now that I think about it, that and "thermal currents" being explained in Science class is the ONLY thing I ever learned in school that helped me with hunting!!!
RA
ps
And oh yeah before I almost forgot, too Rebel Hog, "THANK YOU for your service too our country"!!!