Exocet... not grouping well at all.
11-19-2007, 06:50 PM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 98
Exocet... not grouping well at all.
I just got my Exocet in the maid today. Left work early so I could set up, sight in and hopefully hunt tonight. Everything went together without a hitch, added the Lumizone scope. (I have the right stuff package) Started at 10 yards... first shot was dead center, high 4" inches. I'm smiling like a little kid... adjusted the scope down a few clicks, fired again.... I could go into details, but long story short, I'm notsatisfiedwith the groups. (6-8"at 20yards) I threw an old red dot I had laying around, and it seemed a little better. 100 grain target points, for broadheads I'm using Thunderhead 100g. Could it be the scope? Anyone ever bought a Excalibur and not been happy withthegroups? I'veshot a lot of guns in my day...used to dabble in benchrest shooting, etcso maybe I'm expecting too much. I did a lot of homework... $700 isn't gonna break me, but it's a lot of money with one income and 3 children, ya' know? I tell you, the DVD that came with it was great.. the owner that was on the DVD seems nice enough youd like to invite him to dinner... obviously as fast as his company is growing, he must be doing something right! Just looking for a little help here guys. Thanks in advance for any help! Jeff
11-19-2007, 07:22 PM
#2
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 604
RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
Happy Pappy I have a few questions and a couple of suggestions or statements.
First of all, at 20 yards your arrows should be well within 1 inch of each other, this is why it is said to only shoot one arrow at a time at a target. Doing otherwise you risk shooting one arrow inside another that is how accurate these baws normally are.
Now my question is, how are you loading or cocking the bow. ARe you using a rope cocker or are you doing it by hand. The reason I ask this is that if you cock the string improperly (a little off center) will hurt your accuracy or groups. What I advise new shooters is to mark the string (while it is uncocked), even with the sides of the rail (white out works good for this) and then when it is cocked, you can tell if it is loaded off center (your marks no longer centered with the rail). This is actually the most common cause for large grooups with the accuracy.
Other possible solutions for you could be that your arrow is not sitting back tightly against the string before shooting, your point or head is not tight to the arrow. You did not tells us if your grouping problem was with heads or field points. I know my father had grouping problems with 125 thunder heads in windy days.
Let us know if this helps or give us more info so we might be able to figure it out for you.
First of all, at 20 yards your arrows should be well within 1 inch of each other, this is why it is said to only shoot one arrow at a time at a target. Doing otherwise you risk shooting one arrow inside another that is how accurate these baws normally are.
Now my question is, how are you loading or cocking the bow. ARe you using a rope cocker or are you doing it by hand. The reason I ask this is that if you cock the string improperly (a little off center) will hurt your accuracy or groups. What I advise new shooters is to mark the string (while it is uncocked), even with the sides of the rail (white out works good for this) and then when it is cocked, you can tell if it is loaded off center (your marks no longer centered with the rail). This is actually the most common cause for large grooups with the accuracy.
Other possible solutions for you could be that your arrow is not sitting back tightly against the string before shooting, your point or head is not tight to the arrow. You did not tells us if your grouping problem was with heads or field points. I know my father had grouping problems with 125 thunder heads in windy days.
Let us know if this helps or give us more info so we might be able to figure it out for you.
11-19-2007, 08:09 PM
#3
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 98
RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
Tom,
Using the rope cocker. Groups with both target and field points approx. the same... 6-8". Will shooting the 100gWasp make a noticeable difference over the Thunderhead 100's I'm usingnow? Shooting one bolt at a time. It was a little windy today... maybe tomorrow will be different. I'll do some more "group therapy" and write back tomorrow!
Using the rope cocker. Groups with both target and field points approx. the same... 6-8". Will shooting the 100gWasp make a noticeable difference over the Thunderhead 100's I'm usingnow? Shooting one bolt at a time. It was a little windy today... maybe tomorrow will be different. I'll do some more "group therapy" and write back tomorrow!
11-19-2007, 08:40 PM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: No.MN
Posts: 1,053
RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
Ditch the Thunderheads. Too large, causing the bolt to plane. Cost me two bucks to find that out. Get a smaller head, preferably 4 bladed (Slick Tricks) less tendency to steer bolt. I've experienced some of the same issues. Went to Gold Ring Lazer II's with 110 gr brass insert, 2" Blazer vanes and 100 gr Slick Trick mags. AWESOME!!
11-19-2007, 08:45 PM
#6
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 604
RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
The rope cocker is a gret tool to prevent off center cocking, just make sure your clips are against the rail and not out any from the rail (just to make sure it does not stick out and pulll off center).
When shooing target heads, you should not get any wondering with the arrow. I know that the thunderheads have a stiff spine in the head so that the tip of the head should still be on the center of the axis. With cheaper heads and a soft spine in the head, it can become off center really easy. If the tip is off the arrow's center axis, it will also cause the arrow to wonder (with practice the spin test will help determine if it wobbles or not).
A spin test is spinning the arrow, point tip down (I use the palm of my hand) and look for a wobble where the head joins the arrow, but target heads should not get this anyway, so I do not think this is your problem.
Are you shooting just one arrow or alternating different arrows. Could be bad arrows, bent alumin. ect. If you are using more then one arrow, try your shooting with just one arrow to rule out bad arrows (get a group with one arrow, then get another group with another arrow).
Maybe someone else has a suggestion that might help.
Good luck.
When shooing target heads, you should not get any wondering with the arrow. I know that the thunderheads have a stiff spine in the head so that the tip of the head should still be on the center of the axis. With cheaper heads and a soft spine in the head, it can become off center really easy. If the tip is off the arrow's center axis, it will also cause the arrow to wonder (with practice the spin test will help determine if it wobbles or not).
A spin test is spinning the arrow, point tip down (I use the palm of my hand) and look for a wobble where the head joins the arrow, but target heads should not get this anyway, so I do not think this is your problem.
Are you shooting just one arrow or alternating different arrows. Could be bad arrows, bent alumin. ect. If you are using more then one arrow, try your shooting with just one arrow to rule out bad arrows (get a group with one arrow, then get another group with another arrow).
Maybe someone else has a suggestion that might help.
Good luck.
11-19-2007, 08:51 PM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
Are you using halfmoon nocks they do not work well with a 10 point or an excaliber.
Check the scope mounts ,rings and the screw on the fame to action for tightness.
My exocet will hit an orange every time at 35 yds so I suspect you have some sort of a problem.
When you shoot use a bench rest of some sort so we can eliminate human error as much as possable.
Make sure the roller s on your rope cocker are turning freely, that your arrows are back solid against the string,
that your arrows are straight aluminium can be bent in shipping the others are sometimes made crooked, try the iron sights to make sure its not the scope or the mount. Lee
Check the scope mounts ,rings and the screw on the fame to action for tightness.
My exocet will hit an orange every time at 35 yds so I suspect you have some sort of a problem.
When you shoot use a bench rest of some sort so we can eliminate human error as much as possable.
Make sure the roller s on your rope cocker are turning freely, that your arrows are back solid against the string,
that your arrows are straight aluminium can be bent in shipping the others are sometimes made crooked, try the iron sights to make sure its not the scope or the mount. Lee
11-20-2007, 04:55 AM
#8
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 98
RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
To answer some of your questions... keeping rope cocker hooks tight against each side. Good solid rest. As far as arrows, I'm using the GT's that came with the right stuff package. I will reinstall the Lumizone tonight after work and give it another try (everything seems tight)
Thanks guys. 6 a.m., gotta leave for work. I'll write more tonight. Jeff
Thanks guys. 6 a.m., gotta leave for work. I'll write more tonight. Jeff
11-20-2007, 06:18 AM
#9
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canning, Ontario. Canada
Posts: 974
RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
-First, just use field points until this is figured out that will remove any error due to broadhead variances.
-Then check the 4 screws that hold the scope mount to the rail, if you did not locTite them remove them and do that, make sure they are tight! I put those in so tight I bend my Allan key.
-scope rings should be snug just like any other scope.
-Put your hands on the scope make sure each end if secure, I recently had a scope where the whole back end was loose.
-all that done we can rule out that anything is moving around.
-Rope cocker is important, but it will only affect windage, it will not be responsible for any significant vertical issues.
-using different arrows can cause slight variations but not the ones you are describing, try to use a target with multiple shooting points. Are your groups consistent or erratic?
If they are consistent then it's adjustment time, if they are erratic then something is loose on the bow or in the scope. Loose internals on scopes are not common at all.
So, consistency, are the arrows consistently off or all over the place? If it a problem with something loose in the mountings a way to check is to take the bow to a firm surface and put pressure with the palm of your hand down on the front of the scope, pushing it to the rail. Do it for a couple arrows. It will help determine if the scope is being subjected to the massive forward recoil and moving in it's mounts. You can do the same thing by putting upward pressure on the scope in the same place.
Another trick with that scope is to take off the windage/elevation caps, locate where they are sitting now and crank them both 20 or so turns in both directions, then back to where they were, and tap the scope gently with the butt end of the screwdriver before shooting.
Once you tear it all down tonight and re assemble it I think you will find it to be fine, just make sure those mount screws (the ones holding the mount to the rail) are good and tight, and Loc-Tite is used. Once all that is done the only thing left is the scope being defective, but I would be surprised if it were.
In the right hands that bow is very capable of 2" groups at 50 yards with field points.
-Then check the 4 screws that hold the scope mount to the rail, if you did not locTite them remove them and do that, make sure they are tight! I put those in so tight I bend my Allan key.
-scope rings should be snug just like any other scope.
-Put your hands on the scope make sure each end if secure, I recently had a scope where the whole back end was loose.
-all that done we can rule out that anything is moving around.
-Rope cocker is important, but it will only affect windage, it will not be responsible for any significant vertical issues.
-using different arrows can cause slight variations but not the ones you are describing, try to use a target with multiple shooting points. Are your groups consistent or erratic?
If they are consistent then it's adjustment time, if they are erratic then something is loose on the bow or in the scope. Loose internals on scopes are not common at all.
So, consistency, are the arrows consistently off or all over the place? If it a problem with something loose in the mountings a way to check is to take the bow to a firm surface and put pressure with the palm of your hand down on the front of the scope, pushing it to the rail. Do it for a couple arrows. It will help determine if the scope is being subjected to the massive forward recoil and moving in it's mounts. You can do the same thing by putting upward pressure on the scope in the same place.
Another trick with that scope is to take off the windage/elevation caps, locate where they are sitting now and crank them both 20 or so turns in both directions, then back to where they were, and tap the scope gently with the butt end of the screwdriver before shooting.
Once you tear it all down tonight and re assemble it I think you will find it to be fine, just make sure those mount screws (the ones holding the mount to the rail) are good and tight, and Loc-Tite is used. Once all that is done the only thing left is the scope being defective, but I would be surprised if it were.
In the right hands that bow is very capable of 2" groups at 50 yards with field points.
11-20-2007, 07:19 AM
#10
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Findlay, Ohio
Posts: 3,286
RE: Exocet... not grouping well at all.
Where do you have your brace height set at? I always keep mine on the top lie, the one closest to you and your scope. I am not sure how much it will affect it but have always been told to keep it up high for the best POI.