awshucks

Montana Dave: Actually, xbows are legal in ONE FASHION OR ANOTHER in 47 states. Cannot be used in Oregon, New Mexico or New York even by handicapped. New York claims to allow them for handicapped, but one cannot use a normal trigger, but must use a blow-pipe device in lieu of trigger. Re: the 47, this includes handicapped only, gun seasons only, and parts or all of archery seasons. At the present time, there are about 13 states that either have an xbow season or allow them in part of archery season, or consider them archery and allow them the whole season. Arkansas is one of the latter, [my state] and about 15% of our bow hunters use xbows. They have been legal in all of archery here for close to 30 years. There are about 500,000xbow hunters in North America. There are a multitude of rumors, half truths, out right lies and misconceptions about them floating around.I commend you on your search for data, you are what's known as a "fence sitter" in the xbow debates, and quite frankly open minds are what we seek. There are a dedicated 10 % that are deathly against them for alot of reasons, none of which make much sense to the informed, and there are no statistics to warrant such paranoia in the states that allow them. I would also like to point out that we as xbowers get alot of grief from that afore-mentioned 10%. Guys tend to take things wrong and become defensive because they have been there done that before. Most of these same arguements or concerns were brought forth w/ the invention and eventual inclusion of the compound bow. Then again w/ all the bells and whistles that went w/ them, like high let-offs, releases ect. We live in a time that has seen more changes to archery than any other period in history, xbows are just the latest to become popular.

GrumpyTom

Mountain Dave that is not necessarily so. Yes crossbows are usually in seperate collums on forums, but that is mostly to please the ratical archers that claim their way is the only way to hunt and always attack crossbows. These same people will constantly spout untruths and misleading information to try and sway the uneducated that crossbows give an undo advantage wich is not tru when compared to the compound vertical.


Again, it is the people that DO NOT WANT ANYONE else in the woods competing for their possible deer that fight to keep crossbows out of the woods. This is not based on advantages of the crossbow,, but on the fact that they do not want anyone else in their woods (even if it is public lands). Governments tend to lean on the sides that cry the loudest becasue they are afraid of maybe loosing some possible votes.

I could go on for hours and pages with data (or evidence) to prove that the vertical compound and the crossbows both give advantages to the hunter over the longbow and reccurve bows. Although this advantages are different, they are generally equal to the hunter, just that some situations will favour one over the other (sometimes favour the compound and another time the crossbow).

I believe that DNK mentioned our opinion as in your statement came from the woods which you choose to use in the orginal post. When you state something like you did claiming that crossbows were not archery (this claim is not new to us). we believe that becasue you stated it like you did, that you believed it (thus why it would become your opinion). No problem with your opinion or stating it like you did as long as your willing to hear opinions from the other side of the anti's war. Again this opinion is not new to us, as the anti's fight against the crossbow has mislead many people to believe the same thoughts as you have put forth. Again I do not believe that you were actually trying to cause harm in this thread, but only a misguided archer from propaganda from the anti's.

Hope this helps you a little better.

GrumpyTom

I believe that the reason most archery only ranches do not allow crossbows is to not get the few anti's upset and try to blacklist the ranch with fellow vertical bowhunters

You see, a small group of anti's actually carry quite a bit of weight in thier words (either hold top post on forums, archery clubs or writers with archery magizines) and have for years mislead the uneducated into believeing crossbows were as effective as guns, which of coarse they are not. They are just as effective as the vertical compound, no more, no less.

If you were to open up your reanch to crossbows, I bet in no time, you would have more then a few vertical archery clubs bann against you, telling all of their members to not ever use your services. This is the sad truth, but it would happen in a short time. But this anti 's threat is lessening as more and more people are learning the truths about crossbows. If you do open your ranch to crossbows, you would be opening your ranch up to a vast number of hunters that is not serviced by ranches (like you yourself even stated). This group size will only get larger and larger as more and more people learn the truths and their governments change the rules to include crossbows. Just look at what has happened in the last 5 years. How many States have changed to include crossbows. The truth is starteing to win.

Hotburn76

Well I am home from work and will try and give you the answer you have asked and a explanation for my initial questions. I will say that in my first responses I was trying to be civil, and actually as I was asking questions I was thinking I want to do this In a way Grumpy Tom would be proud! LOL!! So here it is and I mean this all with good intentions.

When I read this I was willing to give you a honest answer and help you out with a open mind and not wanting to take offense at all. I was behind you and on your side.

Will be totally honest with ya. When I read this line my ears turned read, my lip curled and I said to myself "while you little SOB, you have nothing against us, you just think your better then us, thats nice!!" That quote may sound ruff, but being honest as to what I felt after reading that line.

Now bear with me, I am, going to be honest and tell you my thoughts. I was thinking, "not only do you think you better, you are obviously uneducated in the capabilities to a Crossbow. This is one of the major myths about CB's that you have stated in reply post as facts, but they are untrue. A CB may come out screaming the first five yards, but they run out of gas real fast. Most responsible archers, and from here on out when I say archers I include CB's, will not take a shot past 35 yards. Actually anything past thirty is a gamble, and anything past 35 is just plain stupid. Are there CB people that shoot farther? You bet there are, and there are probably just as many long bow and compound archers that do the same. Long range is a lie about CB's spread by the pope and young and others that are supported by the long bow and compound companies that are afraid of sales being lost. They are lying and they know it, but money is there motive and not hunters. A accomplished CB archer has to learn and master the 20 yard game just like a compound archer. I am a twenty yard only guy, just cant get comfortable past that.

From what you have read from others I am sure you have the answer to this, I will answer this later about me.

I will answer this part right now, and that reliability and dependability are my factors. I chose in-line over side lock and flint lock for the simple reason I need that bullet to go down the barrel when I want, not when it decides to finally go off when my shot may have changed.

Hopefully after this and some of the other post you can understand how much less of a challenge there is.

I will be honest with ya, I said this as bait! Wanted to hear you say Compound. Sorry I was baiting, but that was my intentions.

Another post I maid, but just wanted to say it how you said it so you could see how it feels. I know I sure did not like it!!

When you replied with this it confirmed you did in fact enjoy it as much as me and immediately whet on the defense, it is easy to do isn't it! Also, DNK has that job in the bag, he does better then most of us.

This my friend is a lie that the anti CB Pope and Young has been able to make you believe. Currently there are eight states that allow the CB and do not limit it to the disabled. More and more states are waking up and allowing the CB, but the P&Y are trying to keep it quite and play it down, but the tide is rising and I think there is no stopping it. Here is a pic of the current CB status, it mayend up at the bottom, not sure.There are states that are currently in the process of opening it up and will be on track for 2007 and 2008. So the number will soon be at two digits!

Sorry for all the quotes, just trying to reply and respond to all your comments that I felt I could answer. I will now tell you why I use a CB. When I was fifteen I think, I was nuts about hunting. A friend had a old compound and he sold it to me for 25 bucks! My disadvantage was no one in my family had ever long or compound bow hunted. I had a hard time and dad could see my frustration mounting. So for Christmas I was given my first Horton. I was able to learn fast and hit the target great! But I did not get my first deer until I was eighteen, I needed to learn the 20 yard game, and did. I then continued to use the CB for about five years until a new friend exposed me to tree stand hunting. He used a compound and was willing to teach me. I had the same experience as DNK'sfriend Pype did. Pulled it back at twenty yards and hit the center. Did it several times. But as with DNK's bow, this was set up right so it worked correctly. Had a peep set up and a release so how could I go wrong. But I could not see myself in a stand trying to use it, and pull it back on a deer, which I think is the only advantage a CB has over a Compound. I also thought it would suck to do with alot of clothes on, some call it a challenge, I call it not needed for me. So I stayed with my Horton. I then went out a bought my Martin Dreamcast. I really enjoyed shooting it. But I disliked having to shoot it as much as needed to keep up the form and such. I enjoy target practice as much as the next guy, but I have no desire to be in love with my target in my back yard everyday. I was pretty good with my Martin, but I would still get a few "fliers" now and then, which I considered unacceptable and unwilling to do to a deer. So I use a CB for the fact that I do not have to spend all summer in my backyard to get some what good. My CB is a nock buster plain and simple. I can do it with the arrows that is recommended. I do not have to be bounced around with what someone thinks I should be using, Horton has provided me with a proven arrow, and it works. I know that with 100% faith that when I pull the trigger, or as most compound guys call it, a release, I know where my arrow will go. No BS story from me about my bow being off, of the string must have hit my coat and the excuses go on and on for people that miss. I have total confidence with my CB. I can also say I use it because I grew up in a state that has allowed it for thirty years and proved that what others are saying about the CB is plain lies. Ohio and AR has the record to prove the facts. I am sorry this was so long and hope I have give you a honest and good answer. I will also say sorry once again for baiting you with the compound question, I just wanted to see if you would answer why you choose a "easier" method. Hope you take this post with the way is was meant in good faith.

Jason

Dnk

Great map Jason! Red for retarded and Green for good! LOL!

Rebel Hog

GrumpyTom

Hotburn you did good

Actually I do not do all the quotes like that for the fun of it, I go through all the trouble of doing that to try and make sure people do not misunderstand my statements. So they know which statement my reply was ment for, less confussion this way.

You map, I think is a little outdated as well. I had heard that BC in Canada was allowing crossbows, but I could be wrong. I went to their site http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/fw/wild/documents/h&t_synopsis_06_07.pdf and could not see anywhere where they said you could not use crossbows. They also have a full page set to help you choose your archery equipment, crossbows were listed on that page (page 19).

As what has ben stated, the crossbow world is growing.

Bigg~BirddVA

You can change Nevada from red to blue. They will be legal during "all weapon season" next year. Some progress but still in the stupid rules category.
http://www.ndow.org/about/news/pr/032007_bg_changes.shtm

Montana Dave

Hotburn,

I am just puzzled as to how you couldbe upset about my statement: "I am an avid bowhunting fanatic and chose archery because I like the challenge of archery, up close, etc."

Please help me understand. Man, if that offended ANYONE, you know what.... GOOD!I enjoy getting up close and experiencing the "pure" spirit of the hunt. Why would that cause you to do a "lip curl"?

If anyone would understand, I figured you would.

Bigg~BirddVA

Dave I can't speak for others but the way it was written it made it sound like xbows were a longer distance weapon and not up close like other archery. Again it's a common misconception that xbows shoot 100 yds and we've heard this stuff so much one just jumps ahead to what one is used to hearing. And we've also had many a "not trying to start a fight" threads that were really the opposite. Again xbow guys are pretty much shell shocked on the forums. Your's doesn't seem to be that and it's 1 in a million. We're not used to real questions here. Bear with us during the adjustment period.