Why Crossbows????
04-02-2007, 10:56 AM
#91
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3,145
RE: Why Crossbows????
Dave, your ranch is not far from me and your prices are not bad at all. Looks like a nice place.
As for this whole archery community infighting I have been introduced to of late; from the point of view of a longtime shooter, it's all archery to me!
Simple formulae: string + arrow = archery
gunpowder + ignition + bullet = guns
As for getting close, gun hunters are not required to make 300 yard shots to take game, they mey get as close as they wish before shooting. I like getting close too, but then again there's no choice where I hunt. What I mean is, it seems there are lots of gun hunters out there cheating themselves out of a more enjoyable hunt. I'm not saying I'm any better; I know I would pass on a long shot at a doe or spike, but a wallhanger at 500 yards is probably going to get dropped like a bad habit under the right circumstances!
As for this whole archery community infighting I have been introduced to of late; from the point of view of a longtime shooter, it's all archery to me!
Simple formulae: string + arrow = archery
gunpowder + ignition + bullet = guns
As for getting close, gun hunters are not required to make 300 yard shots to take game, they mey get as close as they wish before shooting. I like getting close too, but then again there's no choice where I hunt. What I mean is, it seems there are lots of gun hunters out there cheating themselves out of a more enjoyable hunt. I'm not saying I'm any better; I know I would pass on a long shot at a doe or spike, but a wallhanger at 500 yards is probably going to get dropped like a bad habit under the right circumstances!
04-02-2007, 11:38 AM
#92
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Lubbock, Texas
Posts: 1,401
RE: Why Crossbows????
As an unbiased person who just happened to see this topic listed as the most recent in the forum I just read through this thread.
I think some of the crossbow users are overly defensive. It seems that Hotburn is one of those as he keeps taking offense when Montana Dave refers to archery and archers and does not realize that in fact Montana Dave is including crossbows when he refers to arhery and archers. Even on this forum Crossbows, Traditional Bow, and Modern Compound Bows are all under the "Archery" category. I'm not sure if Hotburn is offended by that or not?
I have no idea whatSproulman said in this thread to set Dnk off like that but I'm guessing there must be some past history there?
I have been debating on getting a compound bow for a while and still haven't made up my mind. Texas is one of the 8 "green states" so I might look into getting a crossbow, but the other state I hunt in is Montana and they are a blue state so I'll have to read up on their restrictions also.
Just an additional comment from another unbiased individual that you guys might be a little easier to listen to if you weren't as defensive.
I think some of the crossbow users are overly defensive. It seems that Hotburn is one of those as he keeps taking offense when Montana Dave refers to archery and archers and does not realize that in fact Montana Dave is including crossbows when he refers to arhery and archers. Even on this forum Crossbows, Traditional Bow, and Modern Compound Bows are all under the "Archery" category. I'm not sure if Hotburn is offended by that or not?
I have no idea whatSproulman said in this thread to set Dnk off like that but I'm guessing there must be some past history there?
I have been debating on getting a compound bow for a while and still haven't made up my mind. Texas is one of the 8 "green states" so I might look into getting a crossbow, but the other state I hunt in is Montana and they are a blue state so I'll have to read up on their restrictions also.
Just an additional comment from another unbiased individual that you guys might be a little easier to listen to if you weren't as defensive.
04-02-2007, 12:20 PM
#93
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Findlay, Ohio
Posts: 3,286
RE: Why Crossbows????
I have quoted your original post and try and explain what I think you are saying. If what I say is what you were not meaning then I will apologize for the past post. But I ask that you please explain this post as to what you meant. Try not and say I don't understand, if you feel I don't then explain this first post different.
Now you said why and then said bowhunting fanatic and choose archery. If when typing this you mean CB's as part of archery and just want to understand why, then I misunderstood you from the beginning and will say sorry. I took it as your form of hunting is archery, more skill, you arechallenged moreand mine is not archery and not a challenge. Was that what you meant? Please explain, you sound like a good guy, but like me are defending right? Again please explain so I can understand your original post.
ORIGINAL: Montana Dave
I can wholeheartedly assure all of you I have NOTHING against crossbows, I just dont understand the "Why". I am an avid bowhunting fanatic and chose archery because I like the challenge of archery, up close, etc. It just takesmore skill to get that close. Matter of fact, I have recently dedicated my life to the sport!
I can wholeheartedly assure all of you I have NOTHING against crossbows, I just dont understand the "Why". I am an avid bowhunting fanatic and chose archery because I like the challenge of archery, up close, etc. It just takesmore skill to get that close. Matter of fact, I have recently dedicated my life to the sport!
04-02-2007, 12:33 PM
#94
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canning, Ontario. Canada
Posts: 974
RE: Why Crossbows????
You hit the nail on the head npaden.
Usually these threads go south, fast. Dave maintained his position throughout the whole thing, that is respectable. What is most impressive over the whole thing is he not only hunts with a compound but he has now done something monumental, and offered guys with crossbows a place to hunt. He specifically said he was not promoting his ranch, and I do not doubt that. He asked for opinions and got them.
I am not pro or anti anything, but I do appreciate an open mind.
Thanks for your unbiased opinion.
Usually these threads go south, fast. Dave maintained his position throughout the whole thing, that is respectable. What is most impressive over the whole thing is he not only hunts with a compound but he has now done something monumental, and offered guys with crossbows a place to hunt. He specifically said he was not promoting his ranch, and I do not doubt that. He asked for opinions and got them.
I am not pro or anti anything, but I do appreciate an open mind.
Thanks for your unbiased opinion.
04-02-2007, 01:36 PM
#95
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 131
RE: Why Crossbows????
Hotburn,
That is the most confusing post in internet history. Please dont "try and explain what I think you are saying". I said what I said. Dont look so far into it, you confuse yourself.
Still patiently waiting for your response as to "why" you bowhunt. You have done your best to discredit me in this open forum,publically posting that it upset you that I like the challenge of getting close.Still puzzled, please respond.
That is the most confusing post in internet history. Please dont "try and explain what I think you are saying". I said what I said. Dont look so far into it, you confuse yourself.
Still patiently waiting for your response as to "why" you bowhunt. You have done your best to discredit me in this open forum,publically posting that it upset you that I like the challenge of getting close.Still puzzled, please respond.
04-02-2007, 02:20 PM
#96
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3,145
RE: Why Crossbows????
Hotburn, if you would go to Dave's site you will see in his forums section that before he posted his question here, he had already decided to allow xbows at his place. I don't think he has anything against our choice in archery eqipment. I think we should concentrate on aswering the man's question instead of getting a rash over it. The first crossbow I ever touched was the Vixen I ordered from Excal. Lots of other people have never touched one either. Let's not run somebody off just when they get interested.
Y'all make my head hurt!
Y'all make my head hurt!
04-02-2007, 02:54 PM
#97
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location:
Posts: 1,394
RE: Why Crossbows????
Here is my post from the same thread over in the bowhunting forum.
To me, there are two or three broad ways to look at hunting and what you get out of it and why you’re there. First is obviously the “meat”. If this was your first priority, you’d have no problem using a 30.06, or any other weapon that increased your odds. Second is tradition and time with family, or just enjoying being there and doing it. Third, is in my opinion where we all get a little weirded out, and it is how we like to challenge ourselves, prove our worth as hunters, and most importantly perceive ourselves as hunters…
It is my opinion that all of us share some combination of these three basic reasons for hunting. For me, numbers two and three are more important than number one, but I do love some of the venison recipes that I’ve made and try to not be at all wasteful. But there is a unique situation that takes place around “bow only” types. It is the “I’m better than you because I decided to make it really tough on myself and you have not gotten to that point yet” thing. Problem with that is there’s always going to be a tougher way, and what does that mean? It means that we must face up to the fact that we don’t practice what we preach. If the mystical thing about the whole bow thing is the challenge, then why not go with the hardest one to shoot? Hardest to pull back, no sights, limited range, loud and so on? Well because we wouldn’t be as successful basically, right? I mean we do want a challenge and we do really want others to see how much of a challenge we’re making it, but to not come out with a deer, would be kind of, too hard? Too challenging?
The compound bow is somewhere between the traditional bows and the cross bow, as far as difficulty goes. The shotgun is somewhere between the rifle and the cross bow. The rife is somewhere between the shotgun and the grocery store meat isle. On the other end, the spear would be more challenging than the traditional bow, and a knife would be impossible, I guess…
So, all of you please raise your hands if you would hunt with a knife if it became legal in your area…
Not many hands…
Why is that? Because we all have a certain level of failure that we can tolerate when weighed against our own personal level of effort we’re willing to put forward.
One of my favorite ways to hunt is on the ground with a shotgun, stalking. My shotgun does have somewhat of a better range, but I’ve got to sneak into thick bedding areas to hunt this way, which is what I like. I’m partial to a shotgun and I’m not sure why. Maybe because I’ve practiced more with them than any other weapons, or it is just a crude open sight fire arm, I’m just not sure. But for ME being on the ground with a shotgun presents much more of a challenge than being in a tree with a bow. In fact I’d say that my shooting lanes in a tree stand with a bow are longer than any opportunities presented while sneaking on the ground with a shotgun. And our smell is on the ground, we’re moving/visually stimulating the deer and we’re making noise. Of course stalking with a bow would be more difficult, I’m not suggesting it wouldn’t be. I’ve done it, and toward the end of last year I got a small doe while on the ground with my left handed bow that I shoot right handed. I was disappointed. I’d been trying to pull that off for two years, and for some reason, it was a let down. I’m not really sure why.
Also, there is nothing wrong with buying and using something simply because you like it, and have no other reason. I like knives and I’ve bought more than I’ll ever need. Most people are this way about something. So what is wrong with liking a crossbow, even if you aren’t handicapped? Is a crossbow a little easier to shoot and hunt with, I’d have to say yes, and be willing to argue about it. But wouldn’t I be a fool to not be willing to look at it a level deeper and recognize that there are also harder ways to shoot and hunt than what I’m doing. Finally, unless you’re willing to say and believe that you are practicing the hardest hunting strategies, you have to flip the chip off of your shoulder.
Someone asked me what I thought was the best part of bow hunting. I explained it was for me; getting into the woods earlier, not wearing orange was pretty cool (hiding from humans) and no bang, like a silent killer. Then they asked what was the worst thing about it. They were a little shocked at my response; being mistakenly identified as a “bow only” type!
To me, there are two or three broad ways to look at hunting and what you get out of it and why you’re there. First is obviously the “meat”. If this was your first priority, you’d have no problem using a 30.06, or any other weapon that increased your odds. Second is tradition and time with family, or just enjoying being there and doing it. Third, is in my opinion where we all get a little weirded out, and it is how we like to challenge ourselves, prove our worth as hunters, and most importantly perceive ourselves as hunters…
It is my opinion that all of us share some combination of these three basic reasons for hunting. For me, numbers two and three are more important than number one, but I do love some of the venison recipes that I’ve made and try to not be at all wasteful. But there is a unique situation that takes place around “bow only” types. It is the “I’m better than you because I decided to make it really tough on myself and you have not gotten to that point yet” thing. Problem with that is there’s always going to be a tougher way, and what does that mean? It means that we must face up to the fact that we don’t practice what we preach. If the mystical thing about the whole bow thing is the challenge, then why not go with the hardest one to shoot? Hardest to pull back, no sights, limited range, loud and so on? Well because we wouldn’t be as successful basically, right? I mean we do want a challenge and we do really want others to see how much of a challenge we’re making it, but to not come out with a deer, would be kind of, too hard? Too challenging?
The compound bow is somewhere between the traditional bows and the cross bow, as far as difficulty goes. The shotgun is somewhere between the rifle and the cross bow. The rife is somewhere between the shotgun and the grocery store meat isle. On the other end, the spear would be more challenging than the traditional bow, and a knife would be impossible, I guess…
So, all of you please raise your hands if you would hunt with a knife if it became legal in your area…
Not many hands…
Why is that? Because we all have a certain level of failure that we can tolerate when weighed against our own personal level of effort we’re willing to put forward.
One of my favorite ways to hunt is on the ground with a shotgun, stalking. My shotgun does have somewhat of a better range, but I’ve got to sneak into thick bedding areas to hunt this way, which is what I like. I’m partial to a shotgun and I’m not sure why. Maybe because I’ve practiced more with them than any other weapons, or it is just a crude open sight fire arm, I’m just not sure. But for ME being on the ground with a shotgun presents much more of a challenge than being in a tree with a bow. In fact I’d say that my shooting lanes in a tree stand with a bow are longer than any opportunities presented while sneaking on the ground with a shotgun. And our smell is on the ground, we’re moving/visually stimulating the deer and we’re making noise. Of course stalking with a bow would be more difficult, I’m not suggesting it wouldn’t be. I’ve done it, and toward the end of last year I got a small doe while on the ground with my left handed bow that I shoot right handed. I was disappointed. I’d been trying to pull that off for two years, and for some reason, it was a let down. I’m not really sure why.
Also, there is nothing wrong with buying and using something simply because you like it, and have no other reason. I like knives and I’ve bought more than I’ll ever need. Most people are this way about something. So what is wrong with liking a crossbow, even if you aren’t handicapped? Is a crossbow a little easier to shoot and hunt with, I’d have to say yes, and be willing to argue about it. But wouldn’t I be a fool to not be willing to look at it a level deeper and recognize that there are also harder ways to shoot and hunt than what I’m doing. Finally, unless you’re willing to say and believe that you are practicing the hardest hunting strategies, you have to flip the chip off of your shoulder.
Someone asked me what I thought was the best part of bow hunting. I explained it was for me; getting into the woods earlier, not wearing orange was pretty cool (hiding from humans) and no bang, like a silent killer. Then they asked what was the worst thing about it. They were a little shocked at my response; being mistakenly identified as a “bow only” type!
04-02-2007, 02:55 PM
#98
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location:
Posts: 131
RE: Why Crossbows????
BigTiny,
I have to admit, since talking to you guys, I changed my policy on crossbows and started allowing them. Initially, an ignorantly, I had a "no crossbows allowed" policy.
I updated my site within the last 24 hours and am now encouraging anyone with a crossbow to visit our place.But, oh yes...... there are strings attached! You gotta share some of that backstrap for dinner one night!!!Part of the deal! (Ha! Ha!)And dont worry about our ghost... he's friendly.
I have to admit, since talking to you guys, I changed my policy on crossbows and started allowing them. Initially, an ignorantly, I had a "no crossbows allowed" policy.
I updated my site within the last 24 hours and am now encouraging anyone with a crossbow to visit our place.But, oh yes...... there are strings attached! You gotta share some of that backstrap for dinner one night!!!Part of the deal! (Ha! Ha!)And dont worry about our ghost... he's friendly.
04-02-2007, 03:21 PM
#99
Fork Horn
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location:
Posts: 466
RE: Why Crossbows????
Dave for many of us we're compound users that feel better with an xbow because of many reasons. I was against them till they became legal. Then I bought one and found out first hand it's no free lunch. Many of the people against are ignorant of the true facts of xbow use. A lot have never even shot, let alone hunted with one. The bottom line is they for several reasons don't want others in bow season with an xbow. Sharing the seasons, game or space, or they feel they passed some initiation process and xbows cheat them or the sport. We've heard it all. After the first 3-D shoot I went to with the xbow if you don't know yardage you're still out of luck. And past 30-35 you better really know yardage. I'll challenge any anti-xbow person to take my xbow and show me some stuff with it on a 3-D course. It isn't going to happen.
That said we all feel it's little to no difference in it or a compound as far as range and deer harvest is concerned. Yes it's harder and takes a little more work to keep in perfect tune with a compound. Many of us physically do not feel like doing that any more or time doesn't permit. The xbow allows bow hunting and we're not out gunning the compound users. But it doesn't require quite as much upkeep to be fair to the game we hunt. Too bad many just can't see that. I saw many a "bow hunter" come in to the pro shop a week or less before opener with museum quality gear ready to go hunt. I hope that type of person might throw that stuff away and pick up an xbow. He's going to hunt with something you can bet that. At least he's going to have a better chance of a clean kill IMHO. To me the game we chase and final image of a hunter, even if it's not available for others to ever see, is what matters most. Most that have issues with xbows do not see the big picture. Maybe in time and as more people pound this stuff in they might figure it out. Glad to see open minded people looking at this with a fresh outlook.
That said we all feel it's little to no difference in it or a compound as far as range and deer harvest is concerned. Yes it's harder and takes a little more work to keep in perfect tune with a compound. Many of us physically do not feel like doing that any more or time doesn't permit. The xbow allows bow hunting and we're not out gunning the compound users. But it doesn't require quite as much upkeep to be fair to the game we hunt. Too bad many just can't see that. I saw many a "bow hunter" come in to the pro shop a week or less before opener with museum quality gear ready to go hunt. I hope that type of person might throw that stuff away and pick up an xbow. He's going to hunt with something you can bet that. At least he's going to have a better chance of a clean kill IMHO. To me the game we chase and final image of a hunter, even if it's not available for others to ever see, is what matters most. Most that have issues with xbows do not see the big picture. Maybe in time and as more people pound this stuff in they might figure it out. Glad to see open minded people looking at this with a fresh outlook.
