Cross Bow
03-12-2007, 08:44 PM
#11
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Newtonville, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,896
RE: Cross Bow
John, as was wisely said earlier crossbows are still a short range hunting tool. There was good information as well as some "tongue in cheek"(I hope). It still requires an ethical hunter to get a deer into the same range as any compound bow. The whole set up is energy inefficient and the short arrows loose energy quickly. Thirty yards is still the accepted norm with a bit further in certain rare circumstances. If anyone thinks they can just pick one up and start slaughtering deer they are sadly on the wrong planet. They should search for a planet that has different laws of physics. Saying the words deer, crossbow and one hundred yards defies any normal intellegence and anyone saying this should be regarded as retarded. Shooting at a target at 100 yards sounds like fun though and is on my agenda this summer!
Having gotten that off my chest I will say that Ten Point is regarded as one of the best bows available. You will not kill a deer any more dead using a 400 ft/sec bow as you would using a 250 ft/sec bow. Both will pass through a deer at any ethical range. So any of the Ten Point line up will do the job. There are a number of other crossbows to pick from. You will get what you pay for but in some cases you are buying much more than you could possibly use. I personally like the simplicity of the Excaliburs. Once you buy an Excal you probably will never have to bring it back to the shop for anything. You can even make your own strings like I do.
If I could only have one bow and there were no recurves it would probably be a Ten Point Slider. One bow to use for anyone that came along. One other hand if you look at my signature I like variety. I have five bows and the Hoyt Vulcan will make it six.
If I had to pick one bow to have the least amount of problems then the Ecxalibur Vixen is the hands down winner day in and day out. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. Drop me off on an island with one of those with some strings and arrows and I'll die a fat old man! I'll leave all my other bows behind without a second thought.
Having gotten that off my chest I will say that Ten Point is regarded as one of the best bows available. You will not kill a deer any more dead using a 400 ft/sec bow as you would using a 250 ft/sec bow. Both will pass through a deer at any ethical range. So any of the Ten Point line up will do the job. There are a number of other crossbows to pick from. You will get what you pay for but in some cases you are buying much more than you could possibly use. I personally like the simplicity of the Excaliburs. Once you buy an Excal you probably will never have to bring it back to the shop for anything. You can even make your own strings like I do.
If I could only have one bow and there were no recurves it would probably be a Ten Point Slider. One bow to use for anyone that came along. One other hand if you look at my signature I like variety. I have five bows and the Hoyt Vulcan will make it six.
If I had to pick one bow to have the least amount of problems then the Ecxalibur Vixen is the hands down winner day in and day out. I challenge anyone to prove me wrong. Drop me off on an island with one of those with some strings and arrows and I'll die a fat old man! I'll leave all my other bows behind without a second thought.
03-12-2007, 08:51 PM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Newtonville, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,896
RE: Cross Bow
ORIGINAL: Ed McDonald
Hey Paul - I can quote you an article with an interview with a Horton Rep that said Crossbows are great for executives that don't have time to practice . He further stated that a person could become proficient with a crossbow in about 30 minutes and it wouldn't be necessary to spend long hours like compoud & Stick Bow shooters . The ideal alternative for folks that don't have time to practice . With Horton's advice , I can buy a crossbow (when they become legal in NY) and quit practicing my shooting . Then with the info fromanother Crossbow Manufacturer, I can slap those bolts out to 100 yards rather than lure the deer in to 30 yards or less . Remember , like everyone says , us hunter's have to stick together !
Hey Paul - I can quote you an article with an interview with a Horton Rep that said Crossbows are great for executives that don't have time to practice . He further stated that a person could become proficient with a crossbow in about 30 minutes and it wouldn't be necessary to spend long hours like compoud & Stick Bow shooters . The ideal alternative for folks that don't have time to practice . With Horton's advice , I can buy a crossbow (when they become legal in NY) and quit practicing my shooting . Then with the info fromanother Crossbow Manufacturer, I can slap those bolts out to 100 yards rather than lure the deer in to 30 yards or less . Remember , like everyone says , us hunter's have to stick together !
your demented comments and thoughts are obtuse and irrational. I hope you are responsible enough to appologize and let everyone know you re joking. If you are serious then lets see your quote from the two reps. If you do not come up with those quotes we all know where it came from and what the purpose of the miss-quote was for.
03-13-2007, 01:25 AM
#13
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Land of Rocks, Ozarks of Mo.
Posts: 3,048
RE: Cross Bow
I am not here to bash other CB lines! Find the one you shoot and like the best and buy it. Shooting distance,i have an Excal Exocet 200 and sighted it in at 35 yds. fer a 3-D shoot this past sunday. My arrow dropped 18" on the 50 yd. Elk target. Thats only 15 yds. farther. At 100 yds. I would be holding more than 10' over my target and thats all guess work. If you sighted in yer CB fer 100 yds. then you would be shooting about 4' high at 30 yds. You always need practice! CB or any other type of Bow!
03-13-2007, 05:13 AM
#14
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Canning, Ontario. Canada
Posts: 974
RE: Cross Bow
Every now and then somebody says something so dumb it keeps a smile on my face for the whole day! This is hands down the winner, it will keep me grinning for at least two.
ORIGINAL: Ed McDonald
With Horton's advice , I can buy a crossbow (when they become legal in NY) and quit practicing my shooting . Then with the info fromanother Crossbow Manufacturer, I can slap those bolts out to 100 yards rather than lure the deer in to 30 yards or less .
With Horton's advice , I can buy a crossbow (when they become legal in NY) and quit practicing my shooting . Then with the info fromanother Crossbow Manufacturer, I can slap those bolts out to 100 yards rather than lure the deer in to 30 yards or less .
03-13-2007, 06:16 AM
#15
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ontario,NY USA
Posts: 509
RE: Cross Bow
Dnk - (sorry - haste makes waste and being in a hurry to type with two fingers doesn't help ! )
Here is the one from Horton ---------
Ottie Snyder , who is the media specialest for Horton Manufacturing , said in the July 2006 issue of Whitetail Journal on page 28 , " Hunter numbers continue to decrease, however the crossbow is fairly easy for even a beginning archer to become extremely proficiant within a very short time. Youngsters , women and people who have never considered shooting a vertical bow can enjoy a crossbow and begin to hunt quickly. Too , older hunters who can't pull vertical bows any longer have found the can hunt effectively with crossbows ."
page 30 ---------
When asked what the largest section of the hunting population that is starting to utilize the crossbow , Snyder said " So far it looks to be youth and women .But we are seeing a number of Urban upper-echelon -management hunters who spend 5 - 6 days at the office and have had to give up archery because they are so busy and don't have enough practice time to be proficient with vertical bows . But a hunter can zero in a crossbow in 30 minutes and then be ready to hunt without having to practice for hours like he or she will with a longbow. Today people are so busy that when they have the opportunity to go hunting even if they havn't had time to practice to be proficient , the crossbow will still meet their needs ."
Once again , Mr Snyder is the media specialist for Horton Manufacturing , a company that has been building Crossbows for 42 years .
As for the other bow company . It was the result of a phone call . My son questioned the sales Rep at a company as to why the scope on their 400+ feet per second Crossbow was a 1X (no magnification) and the Rep told him that they had guys in the factory "that were shooting softball sized groups at 100 yards with the 1X scope". Call me a Liar if you wish but that was the conversation . [:-]
[/align]
[/align]Now the thought process on this is to get more hunters out there . Get the women and kids in the woods and enjoy nature . And feel bad for the poor guy cooped up in the office all week long that doesn't have time to practice with a bow and can be proficient with a crossbow in 30 minutes of picking one up( according to Mr Snyder's interview) .
[/align]And remember , we hunters have to stick together !
[/align]
Here is the one from Horton ---------
Ottie Snyder , who is the media specialest for Horton Manufacturing , said in the July 2006 issue of Whitetail Journal on page 28 , " Hunter numbers continue to decrease, however the crossbow is fairly easy for even a beginning archer to become extremely proficiant within a very short time. Youngsters , women and people who have never considered shooting a vertical bow can enjoy a crossbow and begin to hunt quickly. Too , older hunters who can't pull vertical bows any longer have found the can hunt effectively with crossbows ."
page 30 ---------
When asked what the largest section of the hunting population that is starting to utilize the crossbow , Snyder said " So far it looks to be youth and women .But we are seeing a number of Urban upper-echelon -management hunters who spend 5 - 6 days at the office and have had to give up archery because they are so busy and don't have enough practice time to be proficient with vertical bows . But a hunter can zero in a crossbow in 30 minutes and then be ready to hunt without having to practice for hours like he or she will with a longbow. Today people are so busy that when they have the opportunity to go hunting even if they havn't had time to practice to be proficient , the crossbow will still meet their needs ."
Once again , Mr Snyder is the media specialist for Horton Manufacturing , a company that has been building Crossbows for 42 years .
As for the other bow company . It was the result of a phone call . My son questioned the sales Rep at a company as to why the scope on their 400+ feet per second Crossbow was a 1X (no magnification) and the Rep told him that they had guys in the factory "that were shooting softball sized groups at 100 yards with the 1X scope". Call me a Liar if you wish but that was the conversation . [:-]
[/align]
[/align]Now the thought process on this is to get more hunters out there . Get the women and kids in the woods and enjoy nature . And feel bad for the poor guy cooped up in the office all week long that doesn't have time to practice with a bow and can be proficient with a crossbow in 30 minutes of picking one up( according to Mr Snyder's interview) .
[/align]And remember , we hunters have to stick together !
[/align]
03-13-2007, 06:49 AM
#17
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 6,585
RE: Cross Bow
I have both the 10point and the excaliber,either will do they are both excellant quality. As I don't know what your health problem is I would only say that it would be wise to study the cocking mechanisms and be able to relate them to your particular situation before making a decision. 10 poit has the finest crank there is not even a comparision,but excaliber has the best rope cocker. It would be wise to shoot them if possable. Lee
03-13-2007, 07:39 AM
#18
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Newtonville, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 3,896
RE: Cross Bow
Ed, your puts very little towards any authenticity of your conviction to stick together. I also see no quote that says "I can slap those bolts out to 100 yards rather than lure the deer in to 30 yards or less."
Lets give this another shot.
puts very little towards any authenticity of your conviction to stick together. I also see no quote that says "I can slap those bolts out to 100 yards rather than lure the deer in to 30 yards or less."Lets give this another shot.
03-13-2007, 07:40 AM
#19
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 604
RE: Cross Bow
Ed McDonald no where in the statement did they say that you did not need to practice with the crossbow. All they said was that they (the shooter) did not need to do all of the practicing which is needed to become effective with the crossbow that is needed for the vertical bows.
You still need to practice, just not to the degree as you would with the vertical bows.
As I said above, you can be very accurate (with a good crossbow) well out past 100 yards. The quality crossbows are capibile of doing just that, but that accuracy will depend on the ability of the shooter and you WILL NEVER GET THAT GOOD WITHOUT ""PRACTICE"".
The thing that gets everyone is that even if it is accurate out to and past 100 yards, that does not mean it is effective to hunt at those distances. It takes the arrow time to travel 50 - 60 yards, let alone to 100 yards. At 60 yards, a deer will have ample time to move enough for a complete miss or in the worst case, a bad hit. Our need as a hunter is to make sure you have eliminated as many possibilities for a bad hit as possible and since you have no control what the deer will do after you release the arrow, you should not take those longer shots. Leaving it to chance as to if the deer will move or not is just not acceptable on the ethical side of hunting. The topic of stating you can hunt out to those distances, as we have dealt with them many times before from statements from the anti-crossbow crowd, just gets people that know better on the defensive. Again, no where in their statements DID HE SAY TO HUNT OUT TO THOSE DISTANCES.
then your statement:
[quote][ Now the thought process on this is to get more hunters out there . Get the women and kids in the woods and enjoy nature . And feel bad for the poor guy cooped up in the office all week long that doesn't have time to practice with a bow and can be proficient with a crossbow in 30 minutes of picking one up( according to Mr Snyder's interview) ./quote]
That might be what you read into that statement, but your wrong in that. To be accurate with a crossbow in 30 minutes is achievable if you are talented enough to achieve that. But just because you are accurate, does not mean you are ""PROFICIENT"". To become proficient with a crossbow, you need to become accurate with it, become comfortable with it and be able to handle it with ease and that only comes with practice.
People need to remember when they are looking for information on new items that some companies will stretch the truth and others will say statements where you can read into the statement what you want to hear. That is just what advertising is all about. Again, that above statement you quoted, no where did he say that it was ethical to hunt at 100 yards, only that it was accurate out at those distances. Also he did not say that you did not need to practice, only that you did not need to practice as much as you would need for the vertical bows.
You still need to practice, just not to the degree as you would with the vertical bows.
As I said above, you can be very accurate (with a good crossbow) well out past 100 yards. The quality crossbows are capibile of doing just that, but that accuracy will depend on the ability of the shooter and you WILL NEVER GET THAT GOOD WITHOUT ""PRACTICE"".
The thing that gets everyone is that even if it is accurate out to and past 100 yards, that does not mean it is effective to hunt at those distances. It takes the arrow time to travel 50 - 60 yards, let alone to 100 yards. At 60 yards, a deer will have ample time to move enough for a complete miss or in the worst case, a bad hit. Our need as a hunter is to make sure you have eliminated as many possibilities for a bad hit as possible and since you have no control what the deer will do after you release the arrow, you should not take those longer shots. Leaving it to chance as to if the deer will move or not is just not acceptable on the ethical side of hunting. The topic of stating you can hunt out to those distances, as we have dealt with them many times before from statements from the anti-crossbow crowd, just gets people that know better on the defensive. Again, no where in their statements DID HE SAY TO HUNT OUT TO THOSE DISTANCES.
then your statement:
[quote][ Now the thought process on this is to get more hunters out there . Get the women and kids in the woods and enjoy nature . And feel bad for the poor guy cooped up in the office all week long that doesn't have time to practice with a bow and can be proficient with a crossbow in 30 minutes of picking one up( according to Mr Snyder's interview) ./quote]
That might be what you read into that statement, but your wrong in that. To be accurate with a crossbow in 30 minutes is achievable if you are talented enough to achieve that. But just because you are accurate, does not mean you are ""PROFICIENT"". To become proficient with a crossbow, you need to become accurate with it, become comfortable with it and be able to handle it with ease and that only comes with practice.
People need to remember when they are looking for information on new items that some companies will stretch the truth and others will say statements where you can read into the statement what you want to hear. That is just what advertising is all about. Again, that above statement you quoted, no where did he say that it was ethical to hunt at 100 yards, only that it was accurate out at those distances. Also he did not say that you did not need to practice, only that you did not need to practice as much as you would need for the vertical bows.
03-13-2007, 07:53 AM
#20
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: arkansas
Posts: 3,147
RE: Cross Bow
ORIGINAL: Ed McDonald
Dink -
Here is the one from Horton ---------
Ottie Snyder , who is the media specialest for Horton Manufacturing , said in the July 2006 issue of Whitetail Journal on page 28 , " Hunter numbers continue to decrease, however the crossbow is fairly easy for even a beginning archer to become extremely proficiant within a very short time. Youngsters , women and people who have never considered shooting a vertical bow can enjoy a crossbow and begin to hunt quickly. Too , older hunters who can't pull vertical bows any longer have found the can hunt effectively with crossbows ."
page 30 ---------
When asked what the largest section of the hunting population that is starting to utilize the crossbow , Snyder said " So far it looks to be youth and women .But we are seeing a number of Urban upper-echelon -management hunters who spend 5 - 6 days at the office and have had to give up archery because they are so busy and don't have enough practice time to be proficient with vertical bows . But a hunter can zero in a crossbow in 30 minutes and then be ready to hunt without having to practice for hours like he or she will with a longbow. Today people are so busy that when they have the opportunity to go hunting even if they havn't had time to practice to be proficient , the crossbow will still meet their needs ."
Once again , Mr Snyder is the media specialist for Horton Manufacturing , a company that has been building Crossbows for 42 years .
As for the other bow company . It was the result of a phone call . My son questioned the sales Rep at a company as to why the scope on their 400+ feet per second Crossbow was a 1X (no magnification) and the Rep told him that they had guys in the factory "that were shooting softball sized groups at 100 yards with the 1X scope". Call me a Liar if you wish but that was the conversation . [:-]
[/align]
[/align]Now the thought process on this is to get more hunters out there . Get the women and kids in the woods and enjoy nature . And feel bad for the poor guy cooped up in the office all week long that doesn't have time to practice with a bow and can be proficient with a crossbow in 30 minutes of picking one up( according to Mr Snyder's interview) .
[/align]And remember , we hunters have to stick together !
[/align]
Dink -
Here is the one from Horton ---------
Ottie Snyder , who is the media specialest for Horton Manufacturing , said in the July 2006 issue of Whitetail Journal on page 28 , " Hunter numbers continue to decrease, however the crossbow is fairly easy for even a beginning archer to become extremely proficiant within a very short time. Youngsters , women and people who have never considered shooting a vertical bow can enjoy a crossbow and begin to hunt quickly. Too , older hunters who can't pull vertical bows any longer have found the can hunt effectively with crossbows ."
page 30 ---------
When asked what the largest section of the hunting population that is starting to utilize the crossbow , Snyder said " So far it looks to be youth and women .But we are seeing a number of Urban upper-echelon -management hunters who spend 5 - 6 days at the office and have had to give up archery because they are so busy and don't have enough practice time to be proficient with vertical bows . But a hunter can zero in a crossbow in 30 minutes and then be ready to hunt without having to practice for hours like he or she will with a longbow. Today people are so busy that when they have the opportunity to go hunting even if they havn't had time to practice to be proficient , the crossbow will still meet their needs ."
Once again , Mr Snyder is the media specialist for Horton Manufacturing , a company that has been building Crossbows for 42 years .
As for the other bow company . It was the result of a phone call . My son questioned the sales Rep at a company as to why the scope on their 400+ feet per second Crossbow was a 1X (no magnification) and the Rep told him that they had guys in the factory "that were shooting softball sized groups at 100 yards with the 1X scope". Call me a Liar if you wish but that was the conversation . [:-]
[/align]
[/align]Now the thought process on this is to get more hunters out there . Get the women and kids in the woods and enjoy nature . And feel bad for the poor guy cooped up in the office all week long that doesn't have time to practice with a bow and can be proficient with a crossbow in 30 minutes of picking one up( according to Mr Snyder's interview) .
[/align]And remember , we hunters have to stick together !
[/align]
As to the extreme range stuff, here's a few facts you might not be aware of. They shoot alot of long range target xbow in Europe. Mid range trajectory on an Excal Exomax when shooting at 100 yds is over 25 feet! The long range guys have special mounts for their scopes that have elevation adjustments as the majority of scopes don't have enough adjustment to sight in that far. Add broadheads to the equation, and things change dramatically. Yes, the new 405 fps xbow [made by a vert company] comes w/ a red dot w/ points for 20 -40 - 60 yds. Shame on them, they know better. I see you are from NY, not many xbows there but I bet they play golf. Think of it as a choice like using a wood or an iron, different tools, same game.