jaygail7

Yes you can, to a point, all things being equal, depending on broadhead and bullet construction.....The formula being velocity squared times mass divided by 450240(will give you ftlbs of energy), you can see that increasing the velocity a little and then squaring it will increase the penetration a bit more than increasing the weight, which is not squared,(that means say, with a 85g Thunderhead and the same construction arrow) by going a little faster, will in theory have more ftlbs thus more penetration....In bows there is all kinds of thingsthat effect this, one is carbon vs alum bolts, the carbon's harmonics are usually better than the alum bolt which means the carbon will absorb more energy from the string thus being usually quicker at the longer ranges than the same weight alum. I have tested this thru the chrono both arrows being of equal weight the carbonmore than usually had more down-range speed and energy............Hey Smoke Do not believe your local "Mounties" if that were true all the drivers at Nascar would be dead after one race................

Dnk

Jaygail did you shoot over a chrony at 30 or 40 yards?

Dnk

I think there's much gobblygoop going on here! Carbons are less straight than most aluninums so carbon's ability to transfere the said energy is less. We also have to remember that unless we are using cut on contact broadheads we probably have to rely on sectional density rather than just energy. Jack O'Connor and Bill Weatherby were marvelous story tellers and probably a realy good shots but mostly they had the time and resources to pick and choose thier animals and shots where they did not need sectional density. Bottom line, if you want penetration you have to go heavy. Does anyone know the weight of the arrow that killed an elephant? I think Dan does. And I think most of us know why it wasn't a high speed arrow. Most of us who can shoot at decent and honest ranges do not need a crutch like speed. This is supposed to be a sport about hunting with our whits not becoming equipment junkies or gaget guys.

jaygail7

DNK, Yes to the question, did I shoot thru the chrono at 20,30,40,&50 yards, the carbons were going faster than equal weight alums...Have you not heard when someone shoots carbon vs alum off the same bow how much less noise they make? Straightness---GTPro-Hunter .001 Easton-x-7-.001 seems about the same to me, and I guarantee they(GT) will stay that way until broken or lost(like to see Easton alums give that kind of guarantee).We can argue about equipment all day long, but you cannot argue with the math, that stays the same wether you are throwing rocks or bolts or bullets. And you are right I am an equipment junkie,( I made a living from this sport)but it has not stopped me from killing over 150 whitetails and I did not start until I was 27years old..............

awshucks

Elephant equipment:

Stock Emax
Dbl walled carbon arrow w/ weights
Magnus two blade 125gr cut on contact
900 gr. total weight
255 fp
125 ft lbs k.e.

Dnk

Jaygail, with in reasonable ranges the deer will not hear the string or bolt. I think the point is that you like buying stuff and that is good. Thinking that more hi tech junk will not buy you more deer. I like buying stuff/junk as well but I don't get illusional and think that my light speeds or my full metal jacket axis arrows are going to buy me more deer.

awshucks

Dnk: I'm thinking maybe you missed his point. I took it to mean w/ his set-up [light and fast] using a red dot, the flat trajectory was what he was after, and along w/ that you can be less precise on range estimation. It would seem to me that if your deer is between 10 and 40 his set-up will easily give ya a double lunger.
i could see this working if a guy did alot of stalking, and I bet it would be a real winner on 3-D. Now ya got me confused. Can you splain what you meant by alums being straighter than carbons? I know you're not a carbon guy, but I thought the carbons were the best in that respect besides not bending? Enlighten me O Northern One!!

jaygail7

I do not know how the he!! we ever got to elephants, never have I seen one from any of my stands!!!!!!!!!!!! But I can give you an excellent example,I have a device that shoots a Easton xx75 2512(25/64in wide 12thous wall) 16ins long, 235g weight,75g WaspSST, total weight 310g. The arrow is going just a tad under 460fps that is 146ftlbs of energy...The person who designed this, used this set-up in Africa on Cape Buffalo(now I realize this is not as large as your elephant) but the shot entered(slighly quartering) behind the ribs(by the way they are almost 4in thick) cut the rib in half and exited the neck and still had enough energy to stick in the ground...I would kinda bet you if this arrow had enough energy to do this it would bury it self complety in your elephant(whatever that has to do with anything) He also makes another one that shoots over 600fps with an arrow that weighs over 600g that is almost 500ftlbs...Speaking of Canada, the guide we used to use for spring bear in Quebec, his favorite round for moose(rather large animal) was the 22Hornet "he" said a round where the neck joined the head dropped them in their tracks, so much for fast-moving light rounds.....Of course this is all "gooblly gook"...I guess when gun season comes to your neck of the woods you would not use one of those "explosive" devices with all those fancy optics sitting on top because it will make you a " bad bad hunter" and if you do I hope you keep your shots to under 25feet................................p.s. if your into weight I think Thunderhead makes an African head that weighs almost 300g screw some of those on your lead-sled alum. arrows and keep your shots to under 10 feet?????????????????????

Dnk

What I am saying is that for hunting at reasonable ranges you are better off with a slightly slower moving bolt with more weight to break heavy bones and offer more accuracy. Yes with 3D ranges use the lightest. Unless you go to ACCs or something really really fancy aluninums are straighter. This is a moot point being a shaft that runs off a rail but just a point being made to clear the air. I am not an aluninum man really. I just have tons of them still in the 2117 size, yes not made any more. Just the recommended bolt way back then. I do own 4 doz carbons tho and see no reason for one being more durable than the other unless one is a duffus and does not pull straight back. Course if you do maybe you'll poke yourself in the johnson as well! To be honest the hot set up is no better in the hands of a responsible hunter than the standard set up. Personally I would rather have my xbow last longer buy using conservative set ups.
Yes Charlotte its easier to build straighter aluninum shafts than carbons. Check out the specs on the Easton site. The XX78 is .0015 almost all of the carbons are .005.
Don

jaygail7

Dnk...I do not need to go to the Easton web-site, I was an Easton dealer for 15years, for quite a while they were the premeir arrow on the market nothing came close to what they were capable of building(even though they were extremely nasty in their business practices, a story for a different day). That was then and now we come to a different day, carbons are Better and as straight as any alum,ALUM ARROW .001, CARBON .001 ......Weight carbon +or-2g per dozen the same for alum. that is where carbon has made up ground in the last 5years....As far as large bones on the animals I hunt, I can smash thru both shoulders on any whitetail that I will encounter, in factit makes them a lot easier to find when they usually fall to the ground.......I have also shot 10 deer with the same arrow, try that with your alum.