datamax

BigJ12 - you're right of course. Vast majority of compound hunters came from hunters who rifle hunted and wanted more challenge. They found it.


So do crossbow bowhunters.

MA Jay

I agree with Rack, you are simply wrong here. Getting within 20 yards of a small buck is much easier than geting within 35 of a slammer.

I would be 100% in favor of it. Even if it meant that archery was shortened slightly to make room for crossbow hunters. What I advocate for is that crossbows be managed seperatly so that should, let's say Maine for existence see's a bad winter kill, or possibly the deer harvest needs to stay flat for a year, instead of shortening the "Archery season" that has bows and crossbows together which effects the archer who hasn't killed any more deer than they have in the last 10, but rather if necessary reduce the seasons independently to control harvest.. such as limiting archery by a percentage, crossbows and ML by percentage as well as firearm season by another percentage. If you combine them and you need to reduce harvest (and Data, YES there are years we see reduced harvest quota's) the archer who is the least efficient hunter of the weapon types doesn't get lumped with crossbows in total time reduction.

BigJ12, I don't think the woods will be filled with former gun hunters with crossbows. But if we use the information from states like Ohio and even Arkansas as a guide, bow hunter numbers are staying flat, but crossbow hunter participation is growing at double digit pace. The total number of hunters hasn't grown, so that means the crossbow guys are coming from somewhere. Since bowhunters are not declining .. they must be coming from gun hunters. Not a bad thing at all mind you... but in Ohio 6 out of every 10 deer are killed by crossbow hunters duriing archery season. Not sure where you live, but if I said 10 years from now in that state... for every 4 deer archers kill, 6 more would be killed by crossbows .. would that have an impact? I know in my state that would be a huge impact... and there would be repercussions that would be adverse for those who choose to shoot bows.

Data ... you are that dumb kid in school who thought he was SOOOOO smart, but never had a clue that your greatness only existed in one place, the confines of your own mind. You spank no one. Your arguements are weak at best, and your broad generalizations taken as fact are only true in the litte peanut casing we call your skull. The compound's are just as bad as crossbow's so make them the same arguement is so weak and lame as to create the unique problem of being so dumb it is almost impossible to reply to.... "almost". You have stated many times how you just don't "get" we as a whole don't see your points as they seem so clear to you ... which is exactly what we feel when we finish one of your posts. If you were as a great a hunter, with all of the weapon types you claim I have to believe you would have a slightly larger perspective than the same WRONG one you keep typing blindly away at here.

silentassassin

Where are you guys getting your numbers from stating the numbers of hunters, crossbow hunters, and other archery hunters in Arkansas? Can you please post a link to that info?

silentassassin

What would you say if I told you that you wouldn't be able to bowhunt at all in 10 years if you didn't recruit members into the ranks to help keep your sport strong?

datamax

MA Jay - I don't think so and here's why. Just about every compound hunter out there came from the ranks of gun hunters. Why aren't you factoring that into your equation ? And the 6 out of 10 killed with crossbows in OH ....... whats the ratio of compound kills vs trad kills in MA ? 9.8 to .2 ?

Thats what I'm talking about here. Ya'll are so caught up on what if's that you're blinded to the fact that the very thing you fear the crossbow will bring into archery season - more hunters, less challenge, more gun converts, higher deer kill, more poaching, more slob hunting, etc etc ....... its ALREADY HERE and it because of the compound.

You cannot escape that - its fact, undeniable and true.

And that, again, is not to say the compound is bad - it isn't. Its been a BOOM to the sport of bowhunting. Why couldn't the crossbow be the same shot in the arm ? because YOU personally don't want to hunt with it ?

Isn't that narrowminded ?

datamax

Something else to ponder

You're big buck hunting this fall - your goal is a 170" mature whitetail.

Does it matter if you're hunting with a gun or a compound or a crossbow or a recurve or a camera ?

adams

I'd just like to say that this is the most thought provoking, constructive thread on this topic and I hope it continues to stay productive.

MJ,

Again you make good points.
I'd never comtemplated this sinerio but is certainly is a valid popint. I can see how if lumped together it could have repercussions. I have only once witnessed an early closure due to harvest limits. NH did in in 2003. Due to a bust mast crop the bears were hit hard at the bait stations. I believe the total harvest was 804 bruins which is a state record.

Also
If this were allowed to happen while firearm harvest numbers remain unchanged then there is an issue. If the crossbow numbers rise to what you've stated but the firearm numbers fall as hunters migrate to crossbows then it's a wash. IMO what states (not all states but in ares that have lower populations like NH,ME,MA) need to do is limit the number of deer harvested per hunter regardless of weapon. In NH you can get a deer with either a bow or firearm but you can get an additional tag with the bow. The second tag must be used on a buck but that additional tag can be used for the first deer harvested if it were a buck. In Maine you can shoot one deer by any means but they have an extended archery season in areas with firearm ordinaces. This allows you to take an additional buck and virtually unlimited does(you must by the tag before hunting but there is no set limit). I would be content to see Maine follow the lead of NH and actually limit the harvest to 2 deer and make room for the crossbow hunters.

Silent you are right on!
How true, how true.

adams

Data,
That's a pretty bold statement. Next the compound will be the cause of aids and nuclear warheads I "bolded" my disagreements.
Less challenging, I came to bow hunting for the challenge(was born to a firearm hunting family) at a pretty young age. Knowing what I know now I'd have started in archery but I had no mentor.
More gun converts, I expect some and maybe a lot but I see it as an opportunity to expand our base. It's one more option for the "would be" hunter to consider.
Higher deer kills, maybe durring archery but I guarentee if coumpounds weren't allowed that there would 1) be more trad bow hunter and likely more slobs. 2) more firearm kills as people like I would be forced to hunt with a gun solely because I do not have the time to become proficient with a stick and I'm to ethical to be a unproficient slob.
More poaching, I scoffed at that article. It's bs and poachers have no place in this discusion except for the fact they are being used as misinformation in the overall debate. Anyone should be able to see that a poacher is a poacher regardless of the weapon in his hand. Crossbows being illegal will not stop a person already poaching.
more hunters, Isn't this the idea or our sport and the defense of it. I love to see guys and gals out doing what they love and the more of these people we can recruit the louder our voice will be heard.
its ALREADY HERE and it because of the compoundSo would you be happy if trad had it's own seperate season? I know you support all forms of hunting but to promote crossbows by tearing down compounds is senseless and counter productive.

ELKINMTCWB

Its bad datamax you say I dont kill deer every year with a xbow.But you say you shoot a compuod and think it is a bolt action or something[can be shoot fast over and over].1st I have never got a 2nd shot at a wite tail unless he was wounded,2nd if you do TRY to shoot fast you are NOT a hunterbut just an arrow flinger.I use my xbow in rifle season for the reason. I hunt in a handgun,black-powder unit. I hunt very close to houses so the xbow is the best wepionfor this. NO movement,good distance,scoped for low light, No one hears the shoot and no one compains becouse they think it is safer.

There is a huge dif. from moving a xbow to a compuond. The xbow I just lean on the tree and wait. A real bow can not do this.I am NOT nearly as great as you datamax but I have many many deer/elk/bears and lots more on my walls. Not one of them is put in the books but I have many that could be.

MA JAY I am with you in a lot of things.If there was a NEW season I would hunt it. I would like to see a new season and would vote for it. I do not like to see an over laping season if you can not keep the numbers of deer killed with each wepion seprate.I would like to know the REAL numbers killed with each wepon.There is many many reasions to keep good numbers of what kills the deer.


You quoted how all that mattered to you was that it is leagal and ethical.WELL XBOWS ARE NOT LEAGAL AS ARCHERY WEPONS.

AS I stated there is laws of what is leagal to hunt with in MT.in bow season XBOWS are not one of them. There is a hole list of things. Sould we fix ALL of them or just the ones YOU would like to be fixed.You cant hunt with any item having bataries in it. I would like to use some lighted sites.I would allso like to use 11 1/2 in ruger hand gun.In hand gun season.Or even better I would like to use my contender in hand gun season.BUT I GESS WE SHOULD FIX THE ONES YOU WANT 1ST.

MA Jay

You clearly state your personal opinions of compound bow archers here Data... I happen to disagree.

I have clearly stated I am 100% for crossbow hunting. I ask though, how possibly could adding crossbows to bowhunting be good for bowhunting? It is good for crossbow hunters yes, but there are no benefits to the bowhunter, none. If it recruited HUNTERS it would better our entire sport which I am all for, but not bowhunting. Combining crossbows and archers is GREAT for crossbow guys as it gains them access they experience in 5 states... but the bowhunter sufers. We compete for "hunters" during the archery season... use a "bow" one camp says.. use a crossbow the other wants. Why not accept there are 2 sides, and acknowledge them and embrace them. WHy fight to merge them? Why make a hunter choose "bow" or "crossbow", as they can only hunt with one at a time? Let them hunt with both during their respective seasons....

Recruiting crossbow hunters doesn't grow the hunting population.. it reshuffles them. Hunting with a firearm is the #1 first time hunting weapon, by far. You don't seem to think converting gun hunters to crossbow hunters, more than converted to archery will have an effect. I happen to believe it will based on how many towns and counties are looking for a viable alternative to gun use. In the long run .. 10 years even, that is going to be an issue.