MasterBlaster

Actually I like the thrill of the kill. I enjoy that. I do not enjoy it because I want the animal to suffer. I want the animal the die ASAP. I am not a sick psychopath because I like killing animals.. I would never kill a person unless my life or someone else’s life was in imminent danger. Yes I like it when I kill deer. That is the hunt I am going to remember. To me it is a feeling of conquest and success. It is the culmination of all of the work that you did to get ready. I am mentally capable of separating animals from people. I believe some of you have a hard time with this. A human is a much higher form of being/intellect than a freaking deer or coyote or whatever.

Exactly one point I am making above.

AMEN!

Give me a break! I am reading this crap on a hunting forum? Yes the deer may have the mental capasity to feel pain and be confused. But truamatized??? You guys should take deer to counseling. This BS is humanizing animals wich is what Bambi did. Its what anit hunters do. Sounds like we have been infultrated by PETA[:'(].

If you really have a hard time with killing animals take up photiogrophy. Then you would not have to kill them. Sounds like you would be able to sleep better at night also.

thesource

MasterBlaster -

way too harsh, man. What skin is it off your teeth if someone passes on a fawn, or a doe with fawns? No one is judging you and saying your wrong....why are you beating up Zak for passing? I have a much bigger problem with the folks who feel they must shoot, regardless of the distance, angle, or target.

No one ever said you must slay everything that crosses your path to be a good hunter. Some people believe those that pick and choose to be the more skilled.

Zak - pass what you want, and shoot what you want as long as it is legal. At the end of the day, you must answer to yourself.

zak123

Master, do my ethics have anything to do with you? No they don't, so why are you being such a jerk about it? It would be fine if you asked me why I did something and left it at that, but name calling is about as low as you can go. Why can't you just understand that I will not shoot a doe with a fawn? I guess I'm not a manly hunter. Darn, my loss I guess.[:'(]

And when I said babies, I did not know any better. I thought that was what they were called. A simple post cleared all of this up. There is no need to continue qouting this.

Thesource, thanks for your help.

datamax

Please don't misunderstand my posts to you as trying to humiliate or criticise because thats not what I'm getting at. But you have to step back and see what you're saying overall here, which is that you don't want to kill a Mommy deer because the Baby might suffer mental trauma ? I mean, Zak, c'mon man, deer do NOT have the mental capacity to think to themselves " great, Zak just shot Mommy and now I'm all alone and what am I going to do now ? "

Deer dont do that. And trapped animals don't think "Oh great, stepped in a leghold, now I gotta go through hours of pain, chew my foot off or be shot by a human come daylight "

They're animals, we're suppose to kill and use them (Biblically). We're also sportsman, we're suppose to kill them, and yet at the same time we likely have more love for wildlife than anti's ever will. Its hard to explain to a non-sportsman.

Taking what you've already said Zak, why don't you feel bad about shooting Daddy deer ? Becuase "Daddy" doesn't have any direct contact with the fawn, right ? Does do all the raising of the fawns, not the buck deer. Even though fawns might be following the does in the fall - in hunting season - they are very much capable of making it without the does with few exceptions. They've quit nursing weeks and weeks ago.

I don't see a reason NOT to shoot does with "fawns" I really don't. I don't think you can put forth a good reason either. Your best bet would be to consider the ones with spots still as having an almost zero chance of making it through winter, but even at that if they were to be killed it would be by predation which certainly isnt a waste. Northern climate might put them in harm of starvation - thats about the only thing negative I can think about shooting a doe with a fawn. That and there isn't much meat for the tag !

Last note here - you said twice in your last post that you didn't want to expand on your thoughts / beliefs. That tells me you don't really KNOW them, which isn't uncommon. Heck I don't know what I believe either on many things because, well, I've never had to consider why. But on hunting, on killing deer, on shooting them with bows - I've thought long and hard on WHY I hunt, why I'm a hunter and I can validate everything I believe. If I couldn't ......... how in the heck would I be able to justify Hunting itsself ?

zak123

Is there any proof that shooting a doe, not mommy datamax, with a fawn, not baby, will not traumatize the fawn? If I had proof I would reconsider my actions. I do feel bad shooting a buck. I feel bad shooting a bird and a squirrel too. Also, it would be helpful if you used the terms you corrected me on. I understand that they are called fawns, does, and bucks. There is no need to bring my error up unless you just want to start trouble.

datamax

Zak - I was making a point is all on the terminology.

Like trauma and traumatize.

Main Entry: trau·ma
Pronunciation: 'trau-m&, 'tro-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural traumas also trau·ma·ta /-m&-t&/
Etymology: Greek traumat-, trauma wound, alteration of trOma; akin to Greek titrOskein to wound, tetrainein to pierce -- more at THROW
1 a : an injury (as a wound) to living tissue caused by an extrinsic agent <surgical trauma> b : a disordered psychic or behavioral state resulting from mental or emotional stress or physical injury
2 : an agent, force, or mechanism that causes trauma

To say a fawn would be traumatized is to say it has the mental capacity of a human being Zak, that they are mentally stressed from the death of the doe.

I don't buy it, because it would place them right there with humans as far as pain and mentality and we know thats not true, don't we ?

Sure, a fawn probably does have a natural instinct that tells it its alone - but its going to get that when the doe goes into heat in early Nov because the doe is going to run it off anyway, right ? Fawns in late fall are alone anyway, and then after the rut they do yard or herd up with maybe their does or maybe not as the case may be. I'm not an expert by far on deer behavior, but I do know that deer don't have the capacity to be traumatized.

zak123

Ok datamax, I think I'm getting it. I'm still not going to kill a doe with a fawn, but I get that they can't be traumatized. It just doesn't feel right to do that.

MasterBlaster

Ok..... Ill lay off Zak. I can understand if he doesn’t like killing. I’m not trying to be a jerk. I just don’t beat around the bush. If someone tells me something that sounds like crap I am going to call them on it. The Mommie and baby crap is what got me going. It irritates me when someone acts like animals are like people.[:@] It sounds like anti hunting garbage.[:'(]

I am not name calling. I have been making analogies. I said:

The last one was a little harsh. I went a little too far with that. I apologize Zak. Hope I did not hurt your feelings.

zak123

Nah, no hard feelings Master. The reason I said mommy and babies is because I did not know what else to call them.

datamax

Zak - I got beat up A LOT over my terms of words for a long time, and still do. Why ? Because its the internet. If you and I were talking face to face, we'd understand the other a lot better. But in a message board, things have to be typed in such a way as to exactly get across your point without the use of facial expressions, body language, tone of voice etc etc.

Much tougher. Plus, many people don't KNOW why they believe a certain way, they just do (like the crossbow thing)

I probably wouldn't take a doe with a fawn with spots right behind it. I agree - doesn't make much sense really. Plus ... I believe I read where something like 75% of the fawns from 1st year does are bucks, and fawns with spots in hunting season is likely the product of a doe having her first fawn.