IndyHunter

Judging distance has always been a little tougher for me because I can only see out of one eye (accident in grade school). Anyhow, I had to really work and practice at it while growing up. No one is going to get good at judging distance by stepping up to the 20 yard line and pounding arrows in a target all day long. I'm sure it comes more natural to some people, and tough for others. My arrow speed/trajectory is somewhere in the middle of the road I would guess. One thing I will do if I am in a stand with multiple trails and shooting lanes, is hang a couple small pieces of colored marking tape on the side of a tree about chest high on a deer, near where I expect to get the shot. That allows me to judge how far the deer is from my marking tape, rather than from the base of my tree.

--Man who fish in other man's well often catch crabs--

MJL927

Arthur,

I understand your point of view and do agree with you. But, I agree with you from possibly a different perspective. I think some bowhunters, especially those new to the sport, become far too fixated on speed and speed alone. Like it's some sort of macho thing or "too cool" to pull 80 lbs and shoot light carbon arrows at blinding FPS.

<sarcastic voice>"Well, I'M pulling 80 lbs! I'M getting over 300 fps! MY arrow shoots like a lazer out to 60 yards! I only need one pin!"</sarcastic voice>

I say woopty-friggen-doo to you and your high horse buddy. I bet your bow sounds like SHOTGUN going off. I'll also bet your bow is in the SHOP every year for repairs!

I'm not pointing fingers at people on this forum, just trying to paint the image of that stereotypical slob we occasionally run into. You just know it when you hear these generally uninformed and boastful people talk. You almost always want to confront them, call them out, and let have an earful. Regardless of their excuse for speed, I almost always feel that "this guy" is probably not the best person to have out in the woods. It's these people that I think Arthur might be talking about. When you DO call these guys out, the first reason they come up with for all that speed is, "Well, I don't have to worry about mis-judging distance."

Look, there's nothing wrong with speed and I'm not slamming people who strive to get their bow to perform well. There's a distinct difference between the guy who works hard and the guy who just spouts a bunch of BS. It cannot be denied that a good amount of speed aides in accuracy, energy, yadda-yadda. We should strive for the perfect balance of speed, quietness accuracy, etc. There IS however, something wrong with being obsessed with speed to a point where your running more arrows through a chrono than at a 3D target from various hunting positions. Spending more and more money trying it eek out 5 more FPS for the typical 20 yard shot is just plain ludicrous.

-Mike

Ratliff

This discussion, while valid, seems to be a pretty easy one to fix.

Save your pennies and buy a range finder! If not taking ranges to an actual animal, range trees, rocks, ground, etc from your stand so when you see the deer standing in that area, you know the yardage.

rml127

I have only bowhunted for 5 years now so I don't even try to pretend I know everything. I do try to learn as much as possible. I have taken two deer with clean kills and I lost one deer that ran into the lake and sank only to wash up on shore a week later. It was a good shot but he ran fifty yards to the water on me. I feel terrible about that deer but I don't know how I could have prevented it besides making a heart shot. I have passed up MANY shots because I wasn't positive I could hit the kill zone. I am a terrible judge of distance, I couldn't tell you where I was inside of 30 yards or 300 yards. I practice alot and try to become better. I pick things all the time and then pace them off year round. I'm not unethical because I am bad at this. I choose a flatshooting light arrow because the heavy aluminums dropped so much that if I misjudged by 5 yards I would miss. My bow shoots to 25 yards with one pin. I am confident within that range so I mark 25 yards around my stand. I am doing everything possible to ensure a clean hit. Shooting a slow arrow that arcs through the air in my opinion is a bad idea unless you are extremely good with it. Even the pros misjudge now and then and that means a miss or a wounded deer. I would love to hunt with a traditional bow and I practice often with one but at the rate I am going It will be a long time before I am confident with it. I believe I am more Ethical because I practice and I shoot the best combination of equipment I can to ensure if I goof up by 5 yards the arrow still hits the kill zone. If I were using your combination I wouldn't be confident at all. I do admire you (and anyone else) who can shoot that well with traditional equipment, I hope to do that someday. Until then I want everything in my favor I can get.

Belle Island

I'm not sure anyone sets out to buy a "speed" bow that will shoot one pin out to 30yds just because they suck at judging yardage. I hope that most people in this forum can accurately judge yardage out to 30 yds within a yard or two, if not they should not be hunting. With most every set up, a yard or two will not make any difference in a hunting situation. What the speed bow does offer is the simplicity of one pin out to 30 yds. I don't own a speed bow, but I do see its benefits.

I think yardage estimation is blown out of proportion on this forum mainly because a lot a people in here know more about 3D shooting than they know about actual hunting situations. Yes, a 2 or 3 inch drop in arrow flight may cause you to miss the 12 ring but it has very little effect on placing an arrow through the vitals of a deer.

I think we have way to many "shooting" experts in this forum. I think we need a little more input from the experienced hunters. Just my humble opinions.




Hunt the thickets

Edited by - Belle Island on 09/13/2002 10:28:14

Rangeball

Another benefit of all the manufacturers filling the demand for speed, speed and more speed bows is, they let you fling a lincoln log pretty freaking fast too, if that's your gig

silentassassin

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> One pin to 30 yards... You've used speed to simplify your setup and improve your sight picture. Now THAT is a good reason to shoot speed.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

That's exactly what everyone else is saying only they haven't done as good a job of saying it. However, you have made the interpretation that you wanted to make. Which basicly makes you the same as an anti-hunter because you choose to portray most bowhunters as unethical slobs rather than ethical sportsman basically because they don't subscribe to your philosophy. That's a damn shame. Why don't you show up at a few PETA meetings and tell them all how any bowhunter that shoots light fast arrows doesn't even bother to practice because he is so unethical and lazy he doesn't have to bother judging yardage. Which is basically what you said and exactly why you are no better than your average PETA member in my eyes.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I hear and read this stuff over and over and over again dealing with speed and misjudged yardage and I really hate it. It's the number one reason most people say they shoot the light arrows... Extra speed will make up for misjudged yardage. Every time I hear that, I cringe. I smell the pungent stench of poor hunting ethics <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Humm, just because they like fast arrows for help with misjudging yardage they are unethical. You are no friend to hunting. You are just a person that likes to create controversy.

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

Shortdraw

Well, I'm an experienced hunter and I agree with Arthur completely ... I think. I know my bow is shooting at 265 fps. I also have tested and shot and tested and shot starting from point blank all the way out to my max hunting range and beyond. I want something a little more precise than one pin from 0-30. According to the one pin theory I have shot my 20 yard pin and know the drop is NOT acceptable to me at 25 yards. I'll gap my 20-30. If I have a deer at 20 I want to aim where I expect to hit... the same at 25 and 30 etc. At 27 yards my 20 yard pin is in NO way acceptable to me. I'll gap the pins and shoot it like 25 and maybe aim a little up if I'm sure. At 35 I'll gap my 30 and 40. If I'm off a yard or two I'm still good. I was in Lens last night. There was a young guy there with one pin, bow shooting at 250 fps and he said he was good with one pin to 30. The arc of that arrow in NO WAY is acceptable from point blank to 30. He was sighting in on a 20 yard target for opening day. He says he'll guess and maybe aim a little high at 30. Guessing and &quot;A little High&quot; is not precise enough for me and I've been doing it 32 years. I don't shoot 3D but consider the accuracy required for it is what we should have too in bowhunting. You should put that 12 ring on the deer and try to hit it... not hit the 10 inch pie plate(which should really only be 8 inches) everyone talks about. When you start talking 35 yards... I want to know it's 35 or as close as possible. I don't want to say 35 and have it 38. I want to know it's a couple more than 35 at least. I try to achieve that accurate a range estimation if I do it with my eye or have time for my lazer rangefinder. You can NEVER be to precise and should NOT aspire to be CLOSE or in the ballpark.







Edited by - shortdraw on 09/13/2002 10:46:55

Belle Island

Shortdraw, I'm in the same boat with you. My bow shoots around 260. I have to use more than one pin out to 30yds. I don't take shots past 30 because experience has taught me too much can go wrong at those distances. The point I was making was with these so called &quot;speed&quot; bows burning an arrow out at 300+ fps, there is no differce from 10 to 30 yds. It still hits within a couple of inches. I personally feel that variance is acceptable. A two or three inch variance is very minimal and I'm not sure most people could do any better than that with mutiple pins.

Hunt the thickets

BobCo19-65

Shortdraw, good honest post. <img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_cool.gif border=0 align=middle>