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PABowhntr

Silens Venator,

That depends on the way one interprets the information.

If we were to have the arrow parallel to the ground prior to release then the statements made earlier are entirely true. The arrow will drop, because of gravity, immediately after leaving the bow. That is no different than what happens to a rifle bullet and it is travelling much faster than an arrow.

But if you put your twenty yard pin on a target then you are, in essence, raising the front of the arrow above the parallel of the ground...pointing the arrow above the point of aim. In this case the arrow does rise, in relation to the ground, before falling after the peak point of the arc of flight (actually a parabola but we don't need to get that technical).

Hope I explained that clearly enough. I knew what I was trying to communicate but don't know if I necessarily conveyed it to you.

Silens_Venator

PABowhunter, I understand what your seeing. From what I have seen and read, I was under the impression that the data about the arrow rising was obtained with the arrow level to the ground. I seem to recall something about aerodynamics causing it to rise. I don't mean like a foot or so, but maybe 3-4 inches. It must be my advanced age catching up with me, my lack of recall. After all, I just turned the big 29, LOL.

Those who wish to appear wise among fools, among the wise seem foolish.
Marcus Fabius Quintilianus (35 AD - 100 AD)

Stealth_Force

All right, now I have to ask WHY can't we shoot light arrows if they are going very fast?
"I'm just clearing up a point so newbies don't think they can shoot a 250 grain arrow at animals just cause they have blazing speed."
Why can't they?

Next issue:

"what pluses come from mechanicals over fixed blades ? And please don't give me the wind planing excuse - very few of us ever shoot in winds high enough to make a difference."

1: Penetration (Several tests have shown some mech heads out penetrate ALL other heads...Deal with it)
2: Ability to shoot larger holes and still retain accuracy. It doesn't really matter what head you shoot...as long as it goes where you want it to. Mech do this BEST.
3: Are less critical of shooters form flaws. Any form flaw (torquing the bow etc) are magnified by broadheads. Again ACCURACY is the single most important factor. "A hit from a sling-shot does more damage than a mis from a cannon"
4: Confidence in ones accuracy. It has been said that archery is 90% mental, 10% physical (adjust numbers to your preferance) getting that 90% working good is a KEY to accuracy.

I really don't give a HOOT what anyone else shoots, but back off of people who choose to shoot something else!!! If someone wants to shoot light and fast...whoopdy doo!!! What business is it of yours to tell him/her that they are WRONG?!?!

Some of the biggest game has been taken by VERY light and fast...and the same can be said for heavy and slow. I think that ACCURACY is #1 everything else is secondary. If you can shoot light and fast accuratly, than by all means, do so. If not...shoot what you CAN shoot accurately...and leave the guys who can shoot light/fast alone.

Big Country

Stealth Force, I don`t see the posts you are refering to! Who is telling people NOT to shoot light, fast arrows? I have seen some suggestions by some obviously knowledgable archers that going to extremes may not be good.
Also, just where are these tests that show mech. heads outpenetrating a quality fixed blade? How were they tested? And, what mech. penetrates the best?
I have used mech. in the past, and don`t tell anyone, but I am going to use them in PA this year. But back to the mech. that out penetrate a fixed blade. Please tell me which mechanical head this is, I don`t mind dumping 30 bucks just to see for myself.

And your analogy about the slingshot and the cannon does`nt hold water. Hit me with a slingshot and I`m coming directly at ya! Miss me with a cannon, I`ll probably run!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA

TFOX

Big country,Stealth is right about some mechanicals.The Rocket Steelheads have been tested by an individuall at Guns and Gear magazine to outpenetrate Muzzy and Thunderheads.There were some other mechanicals that were right in the same class for penetration but I really can't remember which ones they were.I have posted them here before.The test was on a foam type substance that was made to simulate flesh hits.There were a total of 18 heads tested and only 3 (I think)that were in the class with or above the fixed.


Stealth,using a 250 gr head could get real bad.Most 250 gr arrows are not going to be tough enough for a deer.They would most likely shatter on the first rib they hit.Chances are the deer is going to be lost.There are many odds to be weighed when shooting that light.

I did set my nephew up with carbon that were a little over 300 gr.He was only shooting 40#'s and the arrows spined perfect and foc was 12%.I think the setup was pretty good for him,considering he is only going to shoot 20 yards at deer.He is capable of shooting 40 yards but we limit him to 20 because of his setup and the nerves for a 14 year old may not let him make a clean hit any further.



I don't care what one chooses to use but information is a big key to succes also.Really all anyone has said here is that you still need to know the distance of the shot regardless of speed.

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TFOX

Krisken,I have got to ask.What kind of arrow can you get to spine at that weight,draw and speed.

If you are sighted in 1&quot; high at 35 then yes 1&quot; low at 45 is logical.

Now go back and check it at 20,25 and 30.I think you might be surprised.


Please let us know what happens in the future.I have got to know how that thin of an arrow will do on bone.Seems to me it would shatter.


Heck,I couldn't even get thru a full 3-d season with Hyperspeeds at 280 gr.Went thru a dozen in about a month and a half.

Stealth_Force

Outdoor life also did a test of 19 different heads, each head tested on 3 different arrows (aluminum, carbon, and carbon with weight tubes)
Rocket 125 steelhead was #1, Rocket 100 steelehead was #2. I believe that 4 of the top 5 penetrators were mech heads

Tests were NOT done in foam, but through a variety of materials (from some that simulated bone, to others that were similar to ballistic gelitan). Oh yeah, the best results most often came with the LIGHTEST arrow. Even the weighted carbon (still carbon, still same diameter..just weight tubes added) didn't do as well as unweighted carbon.

I feel my analogy DOES hold water....if I hit you with a sligshot...you will take more damage than if I miss you with a cannon (provided the cannon ball hits neaby and you get hit with shrapnel or something) If I put it where I want it....you won't be running at me, you'd be going to the doctor to fix your eye. Again, accuracy would be key.

NOTE: This is all in good humor, I would not want to shoot anyone with anything.

I have just noted a few making statements (like those quotes in my first post...taken from this thread, and others as well) that make it sound like your WRONG if you want to shoot light and fast.
In MY mind, light and fast isn't WRONG...neither is slow and heavy. They are just different. BOTH will kill the same animals JUST as dead as the other. It has been done by both, and both will continue to do so. Arrows have bounced off of game both in light and fast and also slow/heavy. Just cuss it happens to someone once, doesn't mean it's law.

I would just like to see people lighten up about implying THEIR ethics on others.

Big Country

Stealth Force and TFOX, thank`s for the info about the steelforce heads! I`ll have to check them out.
Rangeball, here is some info on different weight arrows out of the same bow. These arrows are not that much different in weight, but here goes.

Bow-Hoyt UltraTec with Excel one cam. 65lb. draw
In both tests, the bow was zerod in @ 25yds. for all distances.

Test # 1 using a 355gr. 2312 traveling @ 284fps.(KE=63.59)
@15yd.= 2&quot; high
@20yd.= 1 5/8&quot; high
@25yd.= dead on
@30yd.= 2 3/8&quot; low

Test # 2 using a 483gr. 2314 traveling @ 244fps.(KE=63.86)
@15yd.= 3 1/2&quot; high
@20yd.= 2 5/8&quot; high
@25yd.= dead on
@30yd.= 3 3/8&quot; low

Again, these numbers were achieved by shooting 3 shot groups at each distance, with any suspect shots being reshot, and averaging the groups.
Note the difference in KE between the two arrows. I know this has been discussed on different threads, but I have always found that when using the properly spined arrow, the KE will change very little.


NRA,UBP,BASS Member
New Stanton,PA