Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
09-12-2002, 03:17 PM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Central PA
Posts: 2,299
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
I think something that has been overlooked on this post is the fact that in this day in age, most people dont hunt to survive like it was back in the early 1900's. Its a recreational sport now adays. Up until last year, I didn't shoot a buck for 2 years because I didn't see anything worth shooting. I think too many hunters here in PA are too concerned with their ego and shoot whatever so long as they can say shot a deer. Its really too bad, and in my honest opinion, its really not going to matter what management plan is in effect, if the hunters dont start taking a lot more responsiblity for what they harvest, its not going to work. The game commision is also going to need a lot more enforcement if they want to regulate and make sure these new laws are followed. I know of way to many A*#holes in my area that will not give a damn and shoot what they want any how.
I hope I'm wrong, and it does work, but I dont see it.
I hope I'm wrong, and it does work, but I dont see it.
09-12-2002, 04:39 PM
#33
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
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Huntingbry,
I agree with what you posted in your last post...to the letter. There are slob hunters out there, more so in PA I wager, and they do ruin it for the rest of us.
As I stated, it is a two way street. We, as hunters, need to be more responsible and ethical while land owners need to have more trust in those of us that they can.
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I too agree!
<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>
<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>
Huntingbry,
I agree with what you posted in your last post...to the letter. There are slob hunters out there, more so in PA I wager, and they do ruin it for the rest of us.
As I stated, it is a two way street. We, as hunters, need to be more responsible and ethical while land owners need to have more trust in those of us that they can.
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I too agree!
<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>
<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>
09-12-2002, 04:42 PM
#34
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
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Frank, I would love to see landowners give some of the good guys a chance at redemption. This is kind of where hunting clubs or groups can come in. If you approach a land owner and are a member or official in a club, you can show the land owner your process for taking in members, the exact number of people that would be hunting the property, and the clubs guidelines along with any special requirements the landowner would like hunters to adhere to. This can help open some doors. Unfortunately, I have not found a club like that in my area.
I truly believe that if given the opportunity, hunters could turn a lot of land owners around.
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Huntingbry, I think a good place to start is the UBP. The UBP hands out hunter/landowner cards to show who you are, what you stand for ect...It's the first step to show your an ethical hunter. Personalities show alot also. I've been fortunate to get permission just about everywhere I have asked. My job usually gets my foot in the door, then my personality and perfessional demeanor towards hunting seals the deal.
<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>
<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>
Frank, I would love to see landowners give some of the good guys a chance at redemption. This is kind of where hunting clubs or groups can come in. If you approach a land owner and are a member or official in a club, you can show the land owner your process for taking in members, the exact number of people that would be hunting the property, and the clubs guidelines along with any special requirements the landowner would like hunters to adhere to. This can help open some doors. Unfortunately, I have not found a club like that in my area.
I truly believe that if given the opportunity, hunters could turn a lot of land owners around.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Huntingbry, I think a good place to start is the UBP. The UBP hands out hunter/landowner cards to show who you are, what you stand for ect...It's the first step to show your an ethical hunter. Personalities show alot also. I've been fortunate to get permission just about everywhere I have asked. My job usually gets my foot in the door, then my personality and perfessional demeanor towards hunting seals the deal.
<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>
<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>
09-12-2002, 05:06 PM
#35
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 15,451
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
6 Pt sika,Bush dont even pay social security.Ok public land ,I would quit hunting if I had to hunt public land,the way it is managed in PA. You need to just vistit one weekend down here and I will pay for all expenses and i will take you to our Gamelands in the area. Believe me it will be a lesson learned.Arrive at 5:30 try and find a parking place,by 6:30 40 people walked by you with flashlights ,half set up within 100 yards of you. You sit there and watch hunters till 10 o"clock. You see one tail and it was going south at 100MPH. The argument will never be settled. between the people who run the game commission and the hunter. But Dont you think a person in charge should get there hands dirty before they ask the peon to do so? I owned my own business and never ask my employess to do anything I would not or was doing.Well we can see thats what the heck is wrong with todays companies .Everyone is a chief that wont lead their warriors to battle. Them days are over and Im a figure of the past that probably should just shut up. LOL And I will continue to not shoot does in a low pop area ,not shoot buttons and only 6 pt bucks that have a full 6 Pts.Peace.
09-12-2002, 07:10 PM
#36
Spike
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Williamsport PA. USA
Posts: 91
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
Is this scenario that far down the road? Imagine a man and his son or daughter its the first day of deer season and they are watching a doe walking towards them the child asks dad can I shoot this one and the dad replies no I am sorry you cant we couldnt get a doe tag and she isnt legal. a little bit later here comes a four point again the child ask the same question and gets this answer no since they passed AR for everyone you cant. Now I know that it isnt passed for everyone yet but I have read that people want it to be. Now what do you think that child is going to think after seeing a couple deer and not able to shoot? Too many times like this in the woods and I will bet that the kid will quit and we have one last hunter in our ranks. With AR and herd reduction hand in hand this might not be to far down the road.
09-12-2002, 07:30 PM
#37
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Now what do you think that child is going to think after seeing a couple deer and not able to shoot? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
My guess is they will wish for more of the larger bucks to come by, so they can get an opportunity at a legal deer. Hopefully, the parent would be able to explain the reasoning behind managing a deer herd for the future enjoyment of hunters, and that patience is a virtue for a hunter. If the parent exhibits a bad attitude, chances are the child will too.
My guess is they will wish for more of the larger bucks to come by, so they can get an opportunity at a legal deer. Hopefully, the parent would be able to explain the reasoning behind managing a deer herd for the future enjoyment of hunters, and that patience is a virtue for a hunter. If the parent exhibits a bad attitude, chances are the child will too.
09-12-2002, 07:47 PM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Is this scenario that far down the road? Imagine a man and his son or daughter its the first day of deer season and they are watching a doe walking towards them the child asks dad can I shoot this one and the dad replies no I am sorry you cant we couldnt get a doe tag and she isnt legal. a little bit later here comes a four point again the child ask the same question and gets this answer no since they passed AR for everyone you cant. Now I know that it isnt passed for everyone yet but I have read that people want it to be. Now what do you think that child is going to think after seeing a couple deer and not able to shoot? Too many times like this in the woods and I will bet that the kid will quit and we have one last hunter in our ranks. With AR and herd reduction hand in hand this might not be to far down the road.
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You bet your arse it isn't far down the road. Someone else mentioned , he understood that more does need to be killed to maintain the same herd level<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
Do you think Gary Alt is doing this to maintain the same herd level? It couldn't be further from the truth! Like I said before his main agenda (along with many other states , including Wi) is to drastically reduce the herd level. They weren't getting the doe harvest they wanted to reduce the herd numbers , so walla! How can we push hunters to harvest more does? By forcing them to let younger bucks walk. His plan or agenda had nothing to do with creating monster bucks , he just sold it that way and alot of hunters are foolish enough to buy it.
I'd be willing to bet that next year Pa will have a record buck harvest , and the following year hunters will be forced to shoot a doe (maybe two) before harvesting a buck.
Is this scenario that far down the road? Imagine a man and his son or daughter its the first day of deer season and they are watching a doe walking towards them the child asks dad can I shoot this one and the dad replies no I am sorry you cant we couldnt get a doe tag and she isnt legal. a little bit later here comes a four point again the child ask the same question and gets this answer no since they passed AR for everyone you cant. Now I know that it isnt passed for everyone yet but I have read that people want it to be. Now what do you think that child is going to think after seeing a couple deer and not able to shoot? Too many times like this in the woods and I will bet that the kid will quit and we have one last hunter in our ranks. With AR and herd reduction hand in hand this might not be to far down the road.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
You bet your arse it isn't far down the road. Someone else mentioned , he understood that more does need to be killed to maintain the same herd level<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
Do you think Gary Alt is doing this to maintain the same herd level? It couldn't be further from the truth! Like I said before his main agenda (along with many other states , including Wi) is to drastically reduce the herd level. They weren't getting the doe harvest they wanted to reduce the herd numbers , so walla! How can we push hunters to harvest more does? By forcing them to let younger bucks walk. His plan or agenda had nothing to do with creating monster bucks , he just sold it that way and alot of hunters are foolish enough to buy it.
I'd be willing to bet that next year Pa will have a record buck harvest , and the following year hunters will be forced to shoot a doe (maybe two) before harvesting a buck.
09-12-2002, 09:42 PM
#39
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
You bet your arse it isn't far down the road. Someone else mentioned , he understood that more does need to be killed to maintain the same herd level<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
Do you think Gary Alt is doing this to maintain the same herd level? It couldn't be further from the truth! Like I said before his main agenda (along with many other states , including Wi) is to drastically reduce the herd level. They weren't getting the doe harvest they wanted to reduce the herd numbers , so walla! How can we push hunters to harvest more does? By forcing them to let younger bucks walk. His plan or agenda had nothing to do with creating monster bucks , he just sold it that way and alot of hunters are foolish enough to buy it.
I'd be willing to bet that next year Pa will have a record buck harvest , and the following year hunters will be forced to shoot a doe (maybe two) before harvesting a buck.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I'm not sure how to read that quote, are you for or against?
IMHO, what's wrong with that? We are only now starting to do things that many top quality deer management private areas like Willow Point are doing and they have the best of all worlds. A healthy deer population, adequate buck to doe ratios, large bodied, healthy, heavy antlered bucks, good fawn production...etc
What PA is now finally starting to do is what all these areas have been doing for a long time. Gary Alt isn't pulling this stuff from a hat, it's been implemented and working many places.
(not necessarily directed at Bowfanactic)
<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>
<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>
You bet your arse it isn't far down the road. Someone else mentioned , he understood that more does need to be killed to maintain the same herd level<img src=icon_smile_question.gif border=0 align=middle>
Do you think Gary Alt is doing this to maintain the same herd level? It couldn't be further from the truth! Like I said before his main agenda (along with many other states , including Wi) is to drastically reduce the herd level. They weren't getting the doe harvest they wanted to reduce the herd numbers , so walla! How can we push hunters to harvest more does? By forcing them to let younger bucks walk. His plan or agenda had nothing to do with creating monster bucks , he just sold it that way and alot of hunters are foolish enough to buy it.
I'd be willing to bet that next year Pa will have a record buck harvest , and the following year hunters will be forced to shoot a doe (maybe two) before harvesting a buck.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
I'm not sure how to read that quote, are you for or against?
IMHO, what's wrong with that? We are only now starting to do things that many top quality deer management private areas like Willow Point are doing and they have the best of all worlds. A healthy deer population, adequate buck to doe ratios, large bodied, healthy, heavy antlered bucks, good fawn production...etc
What PA is now finally starting to do is what all these areas have been doing for a long time. Gary Alt isn't pulling this stuff from a hat, it's been implemented and working many places.
(not necessarily directed at Bowfanactic)
<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>
<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>
09-12-2002, 11:00 PM
#40
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: Gary Alt (A Man With the "Right" Plan)
Rob
Right now I'm on the fence , leaning towards being against it<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
It just seems to me , that Gary Alt knew darn well how to get his plan across as being the "answer". By targeting the trophy hunters (for lack of a better word) , or the QDM hunters (nothing wrong with QDM) , knowing full well that the above groups of people would be salivating at the thought of trophy bucks.
I , as a hunter , love having a huge deer herd. Are their more does than bucks? Yes! Would a closer buck to doe ratio make a better herd? Yes! But , as I said before , I dont believe for one second that his agenda is aimed at a quality herd. I truly believe his agenda is 100% aimed at reducing the herd dramatically by targeting does. He knows full well that by having a antler restriction , many many many more does will be harvested this year.
As far as the QDM topic , like willow creek , or our buffalo county , I cant argue with that. It has proven results , but in much smaller areas than the state of Pa or Wi. These areas dont go after the doe slaughter to reduce the herds. They keep a balanced harvest and they weed out the inferior bucks.
In Wi , at least they (DNR) have been honest about their intentions. They have told us all along that they need to reduce the size of our deer herd. Alot of hunters would say , why? we love having over a million deer , but when you get into the politics side of it , like the $$$$ that it costs our states by having an over population of deer , then you'll understand how their agenda and ours (hunters) are miles apart.
Lets say for example , (because I dont know Pa harvest or population numbers) that you have a deer herd of 1.6 million. Lets say your normal season harvest numbers are 600,000 deer with a 60% doe harvest each year. Lets say this year , out of 600,000 deer harvested , 90% are does. Lets say you have the harshest winter in many years and you have a 10% - 20% winter kill. You've already lost a great portion of the breeders. Now next year , I'm betting the buck harvest will be a record harvest. But , this is where you'll find out what Mr. Alts true intentions were , the next year , since mostly bucks were shot the year previous , it will be earn a buck. There will still be quality bucks around , but now everyone will have to shoot a doe or two before shooting a buck. In a few years it will be interesting to see if the size of Pa's deer herd is drastically smaller than it has been in the last 20 years or so.
"Nocked,cocked & ready to rock"
Right now I'm on the fence , leaning towards being against it<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>
It just seems to me , that Gary Alt knew darn well how to get his plan across as being the "answer". By targeting the trophy hunters (for lack of a better word) , or the QDM hunters (nothing wrong with QDM) , knowing full well that the above groups of people would be salivating at the thought of trophy bucks.
I , as a hunter , love having a huge deer herd. Are their more does than bucks? Yes! Would a closer buck to doe ratio make a better herd? Yes! But , as I said before , I dont believe for one second that his agenda is aimed at a quality herd. I truly believe his agenda is 100% aimed at reducing the herd dramatically by targeting does. He knows full well that by having a antler restriction , many many many more does will be harvested this year.
As far as the QDM topic , like willow creek , or our buffalo county , I cant argue with that. It has proven results , but in much smaller areas than the state of Pa or Wi. These areas dont go after the doe slaughter to reduce the herds. They keep a balanced harvest and they weed out the inferior bucks.
In Wi , at least they (DNR) have been honest about their intentions. They have told us all along that they need to reduce the size of our deer herd. Alot of hunters would say , why? we love having over a million deer , but when you get into the politics side of it , like the $$$$ that it costs our states by having an over population of deer , then you'll understand how their agenda and ours (hunters) are miles apart.
Lets say for example , (because I dont know Pa harvest or population numbers) that you have a deer herd of 1.6 million. Lets say your normal season harvest numbers are 600,000 deer with a 60% doe harvest each year. Lets say this year , out of 600,000 deer harvested , 90% are does. Lets say you have the harshest winter in many years and you have a 10% - 20% winter kill. You've already lost a great portion of the breeders. Now next year , I'm betting the buck harvest will be a record harvest. But , this is where you'll find out what Mr. Alts true intentions were , the next year , since mostly bucks were shot the year previous , it will be earn a buck. There will still be quality bucks around , but now everyone will have to shoot a doe or two before shooting a buck. In a few years it will be interesting to see if the size of Pa's deer herd is drastically smaller than it has been in the last 20 years or so.
"Nocked,cocked & ready to rock"
