Black bear broadhead question?
09-06-2002, 07:52 AM
#11
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hilliard OH USA
Posts: 328
RE: Black bear broadhead question?
cyclone,
From my understanding of test mediums, foam actually constricts on the arrow as it passes through causing resistance and slow down the peretration where-as flesh pulls apart slightly allowing for more penetration.
As for Plywood? What test medium represents bone?
When I test a broadhead, I am looking for what it does under a worst-case senerio. I know ANY broadhead made will kill an animal when slipped between the ribs and into the boilerroom. Remember the Indians used small(generally under 3/4 inch width) flint heads for many years very sucessfully.
I wnat to know what I have after the worst possible hit. Will I have enough left after punching through the shoulder, that will cause a quickly fatal wound. IF the head fails on plywood, I keep looking as it most likly will fail it I mess up the shot and try to put it through the point of the shoulder.
My view only on this subject!
Greg
"Getting close to the game is the joy of Bowhunting for me, the harvest is a bonus."
Live 15 ft Python after eating a small Antelope!
From my understanding of test mediums, foam actually constricts on the arrow as it passes through causing resistance and slow down the peretration where-as flesh pulls apart slightly allowing for more penetration.
As for Plywood? What test medium represents bone?
When I test a broadhead, I am looking for what it does under a worst-case senerio. I know ANY broadhead made will kill an animal when slipped between the ribs and into the boilerroom. Remember the Indians used small(generally under 3/4 inch width) flint heads for many years very sucessfully.
I wnat to know what I have after the worst possible hit. Will I have enough left after punching through the shoulder, that will cause a quickly fatal wound. IF the head fails on plywood, I keep looking as it most likly will fail it I mess up the shot and try to put it through the point of the shoulder.
My view only on this subject!
Greg
"Getting close to the game is the joy of Bowhunting for me, the harvest is a bonus."
Live 15 ft Python after eating a small Antelope!
09-06-2002, 08:01 AM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Virginia / West Virginia
Posts: 4,906
RE: Black bear broadhead question?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I wnat to know what I have after the worst possible hit. Will I have enough left after punching through the shoulder, that will cause a quickly fatal wound.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Good point Greg. This is exactly why I use a quality fixed head. Eventually all hunters run into this situation, and I want all the advantage I can have if/when this happens.
I wnat to know what I have after the worst possible hit. Will I have enough left after punching through the shoulder, that will cause a quickly fatal wound.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Good point Greg. This is exactly why I use a quality fixed head. Eventually all hunters run into this situation, and I want all the advantage I can have if/when this happens.
09-06-2002, 08:41 AM
#13
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Cincinnati oh USA
Posts: 626
RE: Black bear broadhead question?
For Black bear over bait I would look to leave as big of a hole as you can since they tend to be close up & the thick hair keeps from leaving a masive blood trail. A good head to look at in this situation is the Golden Key 'DESTROYER' Dead Head 6. It would leave a massive hole which shouldn't close up at all. Of course it is not a mechanical head.
Good Luck!
Good Luck!
09-06-2002, 09:51 AM
#14
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Almost Heaven WV
Posts: 649
RE: Black bear broadhead question?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
As for Plywood? What test medium represents bone?
When I test a broadhead, I am looking for what it does under a worst-case senerio.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Bone would represent bone pretty well don't you think...Get a shoulder blade from this years kill and shoot through it. Try it from different angles also....try to hit as close to the ridge as possible too..If need be freeze it and use it later..
And don't get too hyped up over the size of the exit holes of those mechanicals either...Those Indians that used those little flint heads would've told you that a small hole through the boiler is better than a crater through the gut...better off worrying about placement.
As for Plywood? What test medium represents bone?
When I test a broadhead, I am looking for what it does under a worst-case senerio.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Bone would represent bone pretty well don't you think...Get a shoulder blade from this years kill and shoot through it. Try it from different angles also....try to hit as close to the ridge as possible too..If need be freeze it and use it later..
And don't get too hyped up over the size of the exit holes of those mechanicals either...Those Indians that used those little flint heads would've told you that a small hole through the boiler is better than a crater through the gut...better off worrying about placement.
09-07-2002, 01:22 AM
#15
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sheboygan WI USA
Posts: 255
RE: Black bear broadhead question?
I am finalizing some tests and I think I have a fair simulator for both bone, and meat.
Plywood and foam don't work as they grab the arrow after the shot.
While I won't be using them for my penetration tests (pics and results will be posted on the web) I WILL be using cococnuts for durability shootouts. I found them to be VERY good indicators of performance through bone. The only thing I have agains't them is that being organic, it's hard to find 2 identical coconuts. I make sure they are the same size and weight...but still I don't want a bad coconut to make a head look better than it is.
Plywood and foam don't work as they grab the arrow after the shot.
While I won't be using them for my penetration tests (pics and results will be posted on the web) I WILL be using cococnuts for durability shootouts. I found them to be VERY good indicators of performance through bone. The only thing I have agains't them is that being organic, it's hard to find 2 identical coconuts. I make sure they are the same size and weight...but still I don't want a bad coconut to make a head look better than it is.
09-07-2002, 09:06 AM
#16
Typical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tall Corn Country
Posts: 616
RE: Black bear broadhead question?
Taz -
We have used expandables for the past 5-6 years and have loved them. The only problem is that sometimes, under ideal conditions things can go wrong, after the arrow has been released. There is always the concern for the game being pursued, however in the case of bear, they can climb up a tree and chew on your toes, or worse.
I have switched back to Muzzy's this year due to the performance on one shot last year that I fealt the outcome would have been different using fixed blades.
- Mike
We have used expandables for the past 5-6 years and have loved them. The only problem is that sometimes, under ideal conditions things can go wrong, after the arrow has been released. There is always the concern for the game being pursued, however in the case of bear, they can climb up a tree and chew on your toes, or worse.
I have switched back to Muzzy's this year due to the performance on one shot last year that I fealt the outcome would have been different using fixed blades.
- Mike
09-07-2002, 09:42 AM
#17
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Erie PA USA
Posts: 439
RE: Black bear broadhead question?
Taz, don't hesitate to shoot at a bear if it's in your range and presents a good shot. My bear died quicker (down and doing the death moan -that was scary- in less then 5 seconds) then any of my deer and went a shorter distance (19 paced yards) then any without a spine shot.
09-07-2002, 09:06 PM
#18
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hilliard OH USA
Posts: 328
RE: Black bear broadhead question?
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I am finalizing some tests and I think I have a fair simulator for both bone, and meat.
Plywood and foam don't work as they grab the arrow after the shot.
While I won't be using them for my penetration tests (pics and results will be posted on the web) I WILL be using cococnuts for durability shootouts. I found them to be VERY good indicators of performance through bone. The only thing I have agains't them is that being organic, it's hard to find 2 identical coconuts. I make sure they are the same size and weight...but still I don't want a bad coconut to make a head look better than it is.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Stealth,
What is the representation for the meat over the bone?
I think the coconut would be a good test for bone itself.
cyclone,
We couln't agree more on shot placement! But as I said, what I want to know for myself, is if I miss a shot what I have left as far as the broadhead goes.
Shooting a leftover bone, even after it has been frozen, to me dosn't give a fair representation of a live animal's bone due to lack of muscle and tendon tension.
I don't have a better idea of a bone medium! just that for me the plywood is stout enough to give a representation. Is it the best? I don't think so but as I said I don't have a better one right now.
Taz Good Luck!
Greg
"Getting close to the game is the joy of Bowhunting for me, the harvest is a bonus."
Live 15 ft Python after eating a small Antelope!
I am finalizing some tests and I think I have a fair simulator for both bone, and meat.
Plywood and foam don't work as they grab the arrow after the shot.
While I won't be using them for my penetration tests (pics and results will be posted on the web) I WILL be using cococnuts for durability shootouts. I found them to be VERY good indicators of performance through bone. The only thing I have agains't them is that being organic, it's hard to find 2 identical coconuts. I make sure they are the same size and weight...but still I don't want a bad coconut to make a head look better than it is.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Stealth,
What is the representation for the meat over the bone?
I think the coconut would be a good test for bone itself.
cyclone,
We couln't agree more on shot placement! But as I said, what I want to know for myself, is if I miss a shot what I have left as far as the broadhead goes.
Shooting a leftover bone, even after it has been frozen, to me dosn't give a fair representation of a live animal's bone due to lack of muscle and tendon tension.
I don't have a better idea of a bone medium! just that for me the plywood is stout enough to give a representation. Is it the best? I don't think so but as I said I don't have a better one right now.
Taz Good Luck!
Greg
"Getting close to the game is the joy of Bowhunting for me, the harvest is a bonus."
Live 15 ft Python after eating a small Antelope!
09-08-2002, 12:10 AM
#19
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sheboygan WI USA
Posts: 255
RE: Black bear broadhead question?
Right now, for the meat, we are looking at BASICALLY, a mix of gelatin (heavy mix), and flour poured over a section of loose filter media. Much like a filter for a furnace...not a paper one, but more like the open fiber style.
09-09-2002, 07:36 AM
#20
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fredericksburg Virginia USA
Posts: 13,672
RE: Black bear broadhead question?
Well I really appreciate all the great advice from all of you, but it looks like the question for me is now moot!!! When I went over to see the landowner yesterday and was validating what I can and can not do I asked him about bear and he told me they had a few, but asked me not to shoot any! Rats, oh well maybe I can find some other property around his area that will allow me to shoot a bear. In the mean time there are a ton of deer on the property and for the first time in 93 years the stream that runs through the property is dry, so the only place the deer can get water is the main river where the stream used to dump in it.
The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club
The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club