Too much tech, too little savy
08-28-2004, 09:34 PM
#11
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: Too much tech, too little savy
No dig intended at the techno geeks who play with all the new stuff as a hobby but, YES, I feel far too many nimrods use technology as a substitute for hunting skills. Way too many of those absolutely do not understand the technology they head out with.
They want to buy the technology that will give them the best chance of making a kill without having to invest too much of their precious time and effort into the process. When that technology fails them, they're lost. Seems far too often, it's the wildlife that pay for those failures.
They want to buy the technology that will give them the best chance of making a kill without having to invest too much of their precious time and effort into the process. When that technology fails them, they're lost. Seems far too often, it's the wildlife that pay for those failures.
08-28-2004, 11:13 PM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: Too much tech, too little savy
I'm a little curious at exactly what technology you fellas are refering to that would make todays bowhunters different from 20 years ago?[&:]
Is it the speed of todays bows?
Sights , rests , releases , arrows?
You still have to learn to shoot it. As far as I can tell , the nimrods that are stepping into the woods unprepared with todays "high tech" bows aren't any different than the nimrods stepping into the woods 20 years ago. I dont think it has anything whatsoever to do with technology advances. JMO
Is it the speed of todays bows?
Sights , rests , releases , arrows?
You still have to learn to shoot it. As far as I can tell , the nimrods that are stepping into the woods unprepared with todays "high tech" bows aren't any different than the nimrods stepping into the woods 20 years ago. I dont think it has anything whatsoever to do with technology advances. JMO
08-28-2004, 11:43 PM
#13
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: Too much tech, too little savy
Bow:
In the past there was gear that was considered to be extremely advanced for the times. Regardless, most knew that skill still came from the shooter and all things still remained a "manual" operation.
These days, we hear all the rhetoric about how accurate a bow or a piece of gear is, how forgiving a bow or a piece of gear is, how some type of accessory will automatically correct bad form; and even put an arrow back on course that was headed off course.
There is a clamor and an appetite for broadheads that fly like fieldpoints because it is too much trouble to take the time to learn how to get a standard and more reliable broadhead to fly right. Many want broadheads that can blow huge holes through the game so that not only will there be a better blood trail, but the entrails will string out also, because a bloodtrail is the only way you can track a wounded deer.
And, so on and so on. In other words, these days, too many bowhunters tend to believe that all this tech gear puts everything on "autopilot."
Yes, there has always been "nimrods" in the woods. However, because all the "gimmicks" and "skill reductive" gear that is on the market these days, was not around years past; it was impossible for yesteryear's nimrods to be as "nimmy" as they are these days.
In the past there was gear that was considered to be extremely advanced for the times. Regardless, most knew that skill still came from the shooter and all things still remained a "manual" operation.
These days, we hear all the rhetoric about how accurate a bow or a piece of gear is, how forgiving a bow or a piece of gear is, how some type of accessory will automatically correct bad form; and even put an arrow back on course that was headed off course.
There is a clamor and an appetite for broadheads that fly like fieldpoints because it is too much trouble to take the time to learn how to get a standard and more reliable broadhead to fly right. Many want broadheads that can blow huge holes through the game so that not only will there be a better blood trail, but the entrails will string out also, because a bloodtrail is the only way you can track a wounded deer.
And, so on and so on. In other words, these days, too many bowhunters tend to believe that all this tech gear puts everything on "autopilot."
Yes, there has always been "nimrods" in the woods. However, because all the "gimmicks" and "skill reductive" gear that is on the market these days, was not around years past; it was impossible for yesteryear's nimrods to be as "nimmy" as they are these days.
08-29-2004, 12:11 AM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: Too much tech, too little savy
I understand what your saying and agree to a point , but I feel that the techno advances today aren't any different from the techno advances that were happening 20 or 30 years ago. Follow me?
This is hard for me to articulate on a keyboard.
Think back 20 or so years ago , remember the new gimmicks that were coming out then? There were alot then too , some failed and some survived. I dont remember the name of the broadhead (It might have been Rocky Mt's intro to the bowhunting world) but it was huge for broadhead standards back then advertizing a wound channel you could put your fist into. Remember the string tracker? All the old mech heads? As long as I've been into archery (32 years) I can remember new techno gadgets that sold themselves by proclaiming to help a person be a better hunter.
I can remember hunters saying things like "that new Bear Whitetail Hunter is one accurate bow" back then just as alot of hunters do now.
IMO the only real techno advance that I feel hurts the new archer more than help is the high speeds , short ata's , and brace heights of some of todays bows.
This is hard for me to articulate on a keyboard.Think back 20 or so years ago , remember the new gimmicks that were coming out then? There were alot then too , some failed and some survived. I dont remember the name of the broadhead (It might have been Rocky Mt's intro to the bowhunting world) but it was huge for broadhead standards back then advertizing a wound channel you could put your fist into. Remember the string tracker?
All the old mech heads? As long as I've been into archery (32 years) I can remember new techno gadgets that sold themselves by proclaiming to help a person be a better hunter. I can remember hunters saying things like "that new Bear Whitetail Hunter is one accurate bow" back then just as alot of hunters do now.
IMO the only real techno advance that I feel hurts the new archer more than help is the high speeds , short ata's , and brace heights of some of todays bows.
08-29-2004, 12:47 AM
#15
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: Too much tech, too little savy
IMO the only real techno advance that I feel hurts the new archer more than help is the high speeds , short ata's , and brace heights of some of todays bows.
08-29-2004, 08:46 AM
#16
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Too much tech, too little savy
20-30 years ago, things were VERY different. A whole different mindset. Completely different attitude. You can never point a finger at THINGS and say they are good or bad. It's how those things are used by people that tells the tale.
When things are used to augment a dedicated bowhunter's highly developed skills, then I don't know how anyone could say that's bad. When those same things are used in lieu of skills, in a selfish, and usually futile, attempt to purchase minimal proficiency so the person can go out into the woods and shoot at animals... I simply can't understand how anyone cannot see how bad that is.
Unfortunately, that seems to be exactly what the marketing for most of the gadgets today is geared up for. For the most part, they're being marketed at the guys who refuse to be bothered by archery until they want to go hunting. Skills? The only skills they've developed since the end of last season has been operating the remote and mastering those 12 ounce curls. Certainly nothing to do with their shooting skills has been improved.
Yes, I know I've got an elitist attitude towards bowhunting and I think it's a darn shame that 'elitist' has become a dirty word. Used to be, ALL bowhunters were elitists. Bowhunters expected the same high standards in ethics and dedication from newcomers that the old timers expected of us, when we started out. It was called 'peer pressure' back in the day. Now, peer pressure is being used to try and force people to accept anything, including outright laziness and rotten ethics. Anyone who dares speak out against it is an 'elitist.' The very fact that the 'elitist' word is being thrown around as an insult, it tells you how degenerated and depraved bowhunting has gotten.
Aldo Leopold was dead on the mark, wasn't he.
When things are used to augment a dedicated bowhunter's highly developed skills, then I don't know how anyone could say that's bad. When those same things are used in lieu of skills, in a selfish, and usually futile, attempt to purchase minimal proficiency so the person can go out into the woods and shoot at animals... I simply can't understand how anyone cannot see how bad that is.
Unfortunately, that seems to be exactly what the marketing for most of the gadgets today is geared up for. For the most part, they're being marketed at the guys who refuse to be bothered by archery until they want to go hunting. Skills? The only skills they've developed since the end of last season has been operating the remote and mastering those 12 ounce curls. Certainly nothing to do with their shooting skills has been improved.
Yes, I know I've got an elitist attitude towards bowhunting and I think it's a darn shame that 'elitist' has become a dirty word. Used to be, ALL bowhunters were elitists. Bowhunters expected the same high standards in ethics and dedication from newcomers that the old timers expected of us, when we started out. It was called 'peer pressure' back in the day. Now, peer pressure is being used to try and force people to accept anything, including outright laziness and rotten ethics. Anyone who dares speak out against it is an 'elitist.' The very fact that the 'elitist' word is being thrown around as an insult, it tells you how degenerated and depraved bowhunting has gotten.
Aldo Leopold was dead on the mark, wasn't he.
08-29-2004, 04:06 PM
#17
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 3,903
RE: Too much tech, too little savy
I agree with Arthur and others about those who step in the woods without having half the knowlege and skill that should be mandatory for all hunters.
My kanundrum is this...since I can remember new archery products were geared toward making things easier for the hunter , even 30 years ago. Aside from todays mach speed bows , what other techno advances (gismo's/gadgets) do you feel are hurting our sport that weren't around 20 years ago? The biggest advancements I've seen are with bows themselves. Other than that , there were mech heads way back when? There were fancy bright pin sights way back when? Now they have brighter pins but all provide the same function. Mechanical releases have improved from 20 years ago. Now alot of hunters use a loop , 20 years ago (and still today) the loop was attached to the release. Arrow rests? Big improvement from years back along with some of the old models that still work like a champ , we just have more to choose from now.
Do you see where I'm coming from? I don't think it's fair to blame the new techno advances (gizmos/gadgets) on the unprepared sloppy hunter. Some people (as always , even 30 years ago) will put in the time and effort required to become a skilled hunter and some people will skip out on all the important stuff on their way to wounding animals.[:@]
My kanundrum is this...since I can remember new archery products were geared toward making things easier for the hunter , even 30 years ago. Aside from todays mach speed bows , what other techno advances (gismo's/gadgets) do you feel are hurting our sport that weren't around 20 years ago? The biggest advancements I've seen are with bows themselves. Other than that , there were mech heads way back when? There were fancy bright pin sights way back when? Now they have brighter pins but all provide the same function. Mechanical releases have improved from 20 years ago. Now alot of hunters use a loop , 20 years ago (and still today) the loop was attached to the release. Arrow rests? Big improvement from years back along with some of the old models that still work like a champ , we just have more to choose from now.
Do you see where I'm coming from? I don't think it's fair to blame the new techno advances (gizmos/gadgets) on the unprepared sloppy hunter. Some people (as always , even 30 years ago) will put in the time and effort required to become a skilled hunter and some people will skip out on all the important stuff on their way to wounding animals.[:@]
08-29-2004, 04:25 PM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Wisconsin/Michigan
Posts: 9,679
RE: Too much tech, too little savy
Well put Bow!!!!! Like I said I put a new VBG fall away rest and I shoot MORE than ever! With this new rest I am more prepared then EVER! In my mind and in the field!!! I have never shot better or as much. There were then and still are people who are not prepared, techno or not! Which sucks!!!! JMO
08-29-2004, 06:50 PM
#19
Fork Horn
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 196
RE: Too much tech, too little savy
If every bow hunter could live by 1 rule there would be much fewer wounded game.
Rule 1. Do NOT shoot beyond your effective shooting distance.
For me the limit is 30 yrds. That is how far it is from the back of my house to my target.
I could prcatice farther but dont feel comfortable at 40 to 50 yds.
My hunting location seldom has shots over 25 yds.
Most deer I have taken were between 5 and 15 yds.
Last year I had a coyote at 20 yds and was at full draw twice and still couldnt get a shot because of the brush he was in.
Now if you hunt fields thats another story.
Practice untill you can extend your effective shooting range to your limits, and use a range finder or other device to accurately know that distance.
And by all means NEVER shoot beyond your limits. Its not fair to the animal and paints all hunters with the same brush of unprincipled ethics.
Rule 1. Do NOT shoot beyond your effective shooting distance.
For me the limit is 30 yrds. That is how far it is from the back of my house to my target.
I could prcatice farther but dont feel comfortable at 40 to 50 yds.
My hunting location seldom has shots over 25 yds.
Most deer I have taken were between 5 and 15 yds.
Last year I had a coyote at 20 yds and was at full draw twice and still couldnt get a shot because of the brush he was in.
Now if you hunt fields thats another story.
Practice untill you can extend your effective shooting range to your limits, and use a range finder or other device to accurately know that distance.
And by all means NEVER shoot beyond your limits. Its not fair to the animal and paints all hunters with the same brush of unprincipled ethics.
08-29-2004, 07:42 PM
#20
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: Too much tech, too little savy
Bow:
The core of your statement is indisputably correct and very well put.
Although I often blame the "gizzmos" and the fictional hype, in truth I know that the problem lies with the individual. These days, there are too just many people with bows in their hands and a box full of "gizzmos," that try to talk the talk, but will never walk the walk.
These type individuals are the ones that want bowhunting to be easy and are constantly striving to find that bow that shoots by itself, arrows that are supersonic and laser guided to hundreds of yards, and broadheads that field-dress the game upon impact. Not to mention all the other crap that is on the market that is responsible for putting nimrods in the field.
The serious, the skilled, and the experienced bowhunter will always know when someone is just trying to show their "Vette" but cannot drive very well. As some have said or implied; Hell! With the new type of gear on the market, within a week or two you can be a qualified shooter and go hunting and stick animals.
The core of your statement is indisputably correct and very well put.
Although I often blame the "gizzmos" and the fictional hype, in truth I know that the problem lies with the individual. These days, there are too just many people with bows in their hands and a box full of "gizzmos," that try to talk the talk, but will never walk the walk.
These type individuals are the ones that want bowhunting to be easy and are constantly striving to find that bow that shoots by itself, arrows that are supersonic and laser guided to hundreds of yards, and broadheads that field-dress the game upon impact. Not to mention all the other crap that is on the market that is responsible for putting nimrods in the field.
The serious, the skilled, and the experienced bowhunter will always know when someone is just trying to show their "Vette" but cannot drive very well. As some have said or implied; Hell! With the new type of gear on the market, within a week or two you can be a qualified shooter and go hunting and stick animals.