nubo

I think sometimes that these shop tend to forget why they got into business in the first place.When they start making a real good living at it they tend to forget about thier customers and more about how much money they're making. I've experienced this in the past and hope I don't again. But his has been corrected ,now they listen , and now they take good care of me.

nubo

ewolf

I have another problem with some shops. They don't put out products they don't personally like. I'm not a fan of WB, but if i have a shop i will have them on the shelf and i will help you set it up to the best of my ability. What you put on your bow is yours business. Am i right? I have seen this several places

nubo

Absolutely Ewolf! your very correct.

Swamp Dawg

Keep up the good work, Len. I wish there was a shop like yours in my area. The one's in the DFW area will hardly give you the time of day. One of these days, time permitting, I will learn to do it all on my own. Maybe when I retire!

CAJUNBOWHNTR

It's a shame to hear all the horror stories.When I bought my first compound as a teenager a local shop sold me the wrong spine arrows.As long as they got my $ they did'nt care.But for the grace of God and a local lady who had a archery shop I'd still be wanderering around in the dark.That gal was a top local field archery shooter and taught me more about shooting and setting up bows than anyone to date.With wally world and now bass pro shops coming,it's getting real hard to find shops that can stay in business.Much less ones that are honest and now what they are talking about.

Swamp dog I like that sig line pic.Geaux tigers!
CB

Len in Maryland

Have I 'ticked off' some people/customers? Yes, I have. Did some of them deserve it? Yes, they did. Did some of them not deserve it? By all means. I have been known to have a bad day now and then. After all, as Davidmil will attest, I am a COF; and I'll be another year older in 8 days.

Have I over-charged? Yes, and I have under-charged as well. Everyone can make mistakes. Read the wrong price column, hit the wrong keys on the cash register, not take advantage of certain discount buying, forgetting to charge for all the work that was done, etc.

WV Hunter: Many do know, many more don't know. Some think I'm a pompous a$$ because I bring my engineering background into the picture. Some wonder how I've managed to gain so much knowledge about the archery industry. Some question why I have to charge at all; after all, their friends do work on their bows for nothing. Then many of them bring their bow to me when it gets screwed up.

Cougar Mag: The Dealer who pulled that stunt did, in fact, loose the bow line.

PABowhntr: Frank, do you really want all that verbage brought back.[:-]

mlaubner: Thank you Mark, for those kind words.

AllenRead: I appreciate you making the trip. BTW, you're sight may not be in this week. They're running behind on the one you ordered.[:@]


Wolf killer: It's great that you have a good PRO Shop in your area. It's funny at times because I TELL people that they can get better prices elsewhere. I have lately been putting two or three prices on my product offering. The lower prices allow me to compete with BASS Pro Shop down the street and the numerous Dick's, Wal-Marts, and Sports Authority stores in the area. The higher prices include various service offerings. I tell them that I can't give them discount pricing and PRO Shop service or I'd go out of business.

IL-Cornfed: We tell a new customer that we're going to spend initially from 3-5 hours with them on a new bow set-up. Usually it's closer to 5 hours. We also invite them to come back for a check-up after they've put a few hundred shots through the bow. We give them range time and critique them and their new bow. We tell them that we will always critique them as long as they come into the shop. There are some who find this happening after 10 years of visiting our shop.

Shooting and club participation is down all over the country. Too many cliques were developed at most of the clubs that limited the attraction of new members. Most in our area have seen their error and are attempting to correct the problem. We ALL make mistakes. It's learning from them that make us better human beings.

Draw length problems will continue, I'm sad to say.[] Too many are taught by others who really have no concept of the problems that it presents. I sometimes go into great detail to use analogies in my explanation of things. Most times it helps to overly amplify scenarios. I use the same tactics when I give seminars or teach Hunters or Bowhunters Safety Courses. It might be a good idea to list the negatives of too long a DL in another thread.

Stump_MN_Hunter: Sounds like you've got a good one. I'm glad you recognize that and support him.


Pinwheel 12: NO COMMENT.

Orions_Bow: Sorry, man. Maybe in some small way we at the ATA can educate a shop in your to do better. That's why I volunteer my services and give seminars. I would hate to see the profession die. In fact, ATA is considering a program where they can certify shops. That's a long way down the road; but, some time in the future it would be nice.

Straightarrow: There appear to be two ways to read your post. First, you'd better believe that I'm in the business to make money. If not, my family wouldn't survive. Money doesn't dictate how I react to all situations; but, if I can't make money at a job, I can't afford to do the work. I do, however, try to give my customers several options and even have payment plans from which to choose. The money thing is something that I mentioned earlier in this post. Would you expect to work for no pay? I don't think so. Given my background and talents, I think I deserve what I charge. My problem is communicating to the customer what those charges might incur and convincing him/her that they are justified. Yes, I am in business to 'serve the customer'; but, that customer is expected to pay my established rates or take his business to another shop. That's their choice and I've had them walk out many times to get the work done cheaper. Then again, I really don't think we have an average shop.

Second, I can read it as though you're saying that better service yields higher profits. If, and I truely believe that's the case, we totally agree. The best shops, however, can always 'tick off' someone.

BOWFANATIC: If you have several good PRO Shops, I hope you and your friends support them. If they are trying to get a certain bow line, find out who the Sales Manager is for that line and call or write to them supporting your shop(s). Some manufacturers don't have Reps in the field and would probably respond quicker than you would think.

Ate-Up: Good for you for making the trip.

zak123: Good for you but bad for any PRO Shop that may enter your area. We've had several small shops like what you describe that have come and gone. My cousin had one and soon realized that he was constantly being taken for granted and taken advantage of in many ways. He found it nice to be 'needed' and wanted; but, the downfall was being stuck by 'customers' and friends for things ordered and then not wanted. There were many other reasons for his disenchantement, but I won't go into them. Most of his past customers now think every service they get is priced TOO high.

ewolf: I can relate to jealousy and contempt. I've got one particular local Dealer that truely hates my guts and talks badly about me all the time, according to some of my customers. It was passed on to me when he opened his shop that "I" wasn't welcome at any time. One of his customers was telling me about some of the things he was saying and was wondering why I wouldn't respond. I told him that any comments I would make wouldn't change someone's thinking who had never met or talked to me. This young customer was floored. Now he is one of my customers. I feel for you.

On your second post, I can relate. I've seen dislike of products by individuals affect their judgement in purchasing. While there are products that I don't care for, I let the customers' requests dictate what I stock. I will always give them my PROfessional opinion on the PROS and CONS of any product; but, I try not to 'directly' influence them in their final judgement. Those who have been into my shop can attest to the response most customers get when they ask what equipment I shoot. I won't tell them until after they've made their decision.

hoyt_boy: It is a shame about what happened to you. Hoyt, as with most manufacturers, can't control the way their Dealers conduct business. If more people, however, would contact the manufacturers about problems, a long list of complaints could change things. It would have to be a LOT of complaints, but it could happen.

KY_BOWMAN: Just like you can tell a horror story about one particular shop, I can tell you many horror stories about buying off the 'net'. Where do you think a lot of people in my area wind up when their e-bay purchase won't fit/perform? It works both ways and I feel sorry for anyone who doesn't have a PRO Shop to turn to for PROfessional help.

nubo: Anyone in any trade or profession can become complacent. It is a constant job to remind yourself not to let this happen. I just hope my customers give me a second chance if I fail with them.

Swamp Dawg: Doing it "on your own" can be both commendable and expensive. Having the benefit of a good PRO that can give you the advantages and disadvantages of products can be a time and cost savings.

CAJUNBOWHNTR:

Quote:

With wally world and now bass pro shops coming,it's getting real hard to find shops that can stay in business.Much less ones that are honest and now what they are talking about.

Tell your shop that they'd better prepare to do business a lot differently and to concentrate on the service end. It will usually take 3 years before the 'honeymoon' with the giant chains starts to subside. Those shops who can 'weather the storm' will wind up being much stronger in the community. BASS Pro moved in 7 miles from me over 3 years ago. I starting to see things improve for me just recently. I even gave a seminar at the ATA Trade Show last year on how I was changing with the times. If your PRO Shop would like a copy of my transcript, I'm sure I've still got it in my computer.

Good luck to all in finding the service you need. If I can help Dealers to understand trials and tribulations that I've endured, I'd be glad assist them at the next ATA Trade Show. Just have them look me up.

Kanga

Len.

All I can say is that your customers are very lucky to have you and your expertise on hand when they need it.

For me when the time comes that I have to go to a Pro Shop I will travel almost 3 hours to get to him.
Yes there are other Pro Shops closer but they really dont have his expertise and knowledge so I make the trip.

Sure do wish you would open a shop up down this way

BOWFANATIC

Absolutely! We'd rather pay a few $$ more and keep them around. About ten years ago we found out the hard way why to purchase items from your local proshop rather than internet sales. We lost the best proshop we had around for over 25 years because he couldn't compete with internet sales.
We also got Hoyt into another local shop by doing exactly what you said. For years he couldn't get them because Sheels Sports had them already. When we finally got a rep to stop by the shop and check out the range it wasn't 2 weeks before he had Hoyts on his rack.
We're now trying to get some Diamonds around here.

Straightarrow

Let me try to explain a little better. I'm own a couple business, just not a bow business. However, the principles are the same. We all go into business to make money, but if we use "making money" as our primary goal, then we will fail in many individual situations. For example, a customer comes in and says that they hate the new drop-a-way rest they just bought from you yesterday. They want to exchange it for a different rest, but do not want to have to pay a re-stocking fee or other charge. In this situation, an owner can make the decison on what to do, based on how much profit they make, or they can make the decision based on how happy they want their customer after the transaction. When profit motivates the decision, the customer is likely to end up a bit unhappy, maybe enough so that they decide to take their business elsewhere. When customer satisfaction is the ultimate goal, then even though less profit may be made on that particular sale, the thrilled customer will likely purchase many other things in the future and most likely will encourage friends to shop where they get such great service.

Moral of the story: As business owners, we all want to make money, but decisions on individuals sales situations, cannot be motivated by profit if we want to get rich in the long run. In other words, giving up a little profit when the situation warrants it, can mean much greater sales down the road. Great service and guaranteed customer satisfaction has made for many a rich business man. Charge appropriately, but don't let money get in the way of keeping customers happy.

Len in Maryland

Straightarrow: OK, we're on exactly the same wave length and I thank you for the clarification. We're willing loose money rather than chance loosing a customer.

There is, however, always the exception. We decided a long time ago that we wouldn't become someone's 'junk box'. We had a few when we first opened that wanted to continually buy it, try it, and return it until they finally found the 'one' they liked. Even major discount stores are now tightening their return policies because of shoppers like this.

I always 'feel out' the customer to determine how we can come to a mutual understanding. We go by the policy that any deal/relationship must be a WIN/WIN situation. The buyer and the seller should both wind up being comfortable with any deal. I am always, like I said, willing to loose to keep a good customer.