Arthur P

All true, David. But I haven't seen a 150 fps arrow from a selfbow kill a deer any less dead than they die with a 300 fps arrow. Deer aren't particularly impressed by chronograph readings and you still gotta put the arrow in the right spot.

You talk about optimizing your KE and arrow flight. Okay. I can do that with heavy arrows, which absorb somewhat more energy from the bow and transfer it to the target than a light, fast arrow (albeit at a slower speed). My heavy arrows fly perfectly true, just with slightly higher trajectory than a light arrow. Inside 30 yards, the trajectory difference between a 400 grain arrow and a 500 grain arrow is maybe an inch or so.

You should hear the difference in bow noise between my 450 grain Bemans and my 530 grain 2315's from my single cam bow. You should feel the difference in vibration. I don't need shock absorbing accessories with the heavy arrows.

I can judge yardage. I like smooth drawing bows that shoot a reasonably heavy arrow at a reasonable speed and do it quietly and without shock.

I like to see my arrow in flight and track it all the way to the target, be it paper, foam or fur. That's the most important thing for me about shooting a bow. I ENJOY it. I read an article by a psychologist once that referred to that as 'the ecstacy of anticipation.'

I enjoy shooting archery. That is the area I concentrate on optimizing. A lot of people are missing out on that enjoyment because they're constantly wrestling with their equipment. Always trying to optimize performance, getting frustrated and forgetting that they're supposed to be having fun. It could be one reason why bowhunting's popularity is dropping off.

Some folks can't judge yardage for beans and may do better with a fast bow. That's fine... up to a point. Some of these bows are so fast that the shooter couldn't tell you where he hit an animal if he had to. Bad situation for determining how, and when, you're going to begin trailing.

I can give you a thousand reasons for shooting slower setups with heavier arrows. I can only give you one or two to shoot light and fast.

Of course, I've often been told I need to get with the times and quit being so old fashioned. I just don't see any reason to.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

rpdbry

Just don't forget the MOST important thing. Accuracy! Some of these speed bows have short axel to axel lengths low brace heights and aggresive cams. which are fine for someone who shoots alot and has good form. But they are not as forgivng as longer brace heigth slower bows with smoother cams. For the person who does'nt shoot alot or is new to the sport, I would say go with the smoother bow. A couple of guys at our club got new speed bows and got discuraged because their accuracy went down. They smoked a lot of arrows outside the kill zone. Luckily there are alot of bows today that are a pretty good comprimise bwtween speed and accuracy.

bigcountry25

So far I don't have any problem shooting my speed bow as you guys are classifing it. I shot a BT Pro38 dual cam. Just yesterday I was playing around shoting 50 and 60 yrd shots and only one out of at least 15 shots hit out side the kill zone and it was a 1&quot; low. But for a speed bow it has a tall brace of 6.8 and the ata of 37.5 and enough mass weight for it to fell good and stable. The only thing that reminds you it is a fast bow is the heavier than normal draw curve and the very short valley.

Lilhunter

sorry Dave..I am of the momentum groupies. Yes speed is the first thing we measure..why? Cuz all things rely on it to some extent. But having an equation that relies 2/3rds on one thing and harly at all for the other. Also looking at down range...it isnt KE that keeps it going, its momentum! Kinda the big truck little car crash theory!

Lilhunter

sorry Dave..I am of the momentum groupies. Yes speed is the first thing we measure..why? Cuz all things rely on it to some extent and its the simplist to measure! But having an equation that relies 2/3rds on one thing and hardly at all for the other. Also looking at down range...it isnt KE that keeps it going through a moose rib, its momentum! Kinda the big truck little car crash theory! That has been proven time and time again up here with the fellas trying to shoot super light's and smack bones where as my super slow heavy weights busted one on the way in and nicked one on its way out!

Cougar Mag

Whats a chronograph?<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>I don't measure my speed. I'll take a 250 fps quiet setup over a 300fps noisey setup for hunting anyday.

Jerry/Pa

I can't explain the speed thing but I got it. It's the techie part of archery/bowhunting. I have two set-ups. One for hunting and one for target and 3-d. My hunting rig is set-up with 4&quot; feathers and 7-8 gr. per inch arrow. With that set-up I get more energy plus I'm not worried about shooting over 25-30 yds. My 3-d set-up is 5 gr.per inch and I'm more concerned with FOC cause I'm shooting much longer distances. Both set-ups are with carbon arrows. I found carbons are less critical to spine and more durable. My accuracy seems to stay the same regardless of my set-up or speed. That's the nice thing about this sport. You can go in what ever direction you choose or enjoy it all for different situations. I even shoot a little trad for fun but I'm always thinking compound and speed. JERRY

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TFOX

I've been in this discussion before and I have done some testing with my own bow and found one thing to be absolutely true.


Speed,weight,ke,momentum mean absolutely nothing when compaired to a properly setup arrow.



I took a 495 gr arrow at 238 and compaired it to my 356 gr arrow at 268 and they were the same arrow,I filled the 1 with water and put a 125 gr point on it to keep foc around 10%.The 356 gr outpenetrated a piece of wood with a 75 gr point better than the heavy but when I put the 125 gr point on the light arrow it sucked as compaired to the heavier arrow,put the light point on the heavy arrow and it sucked with penetration.Yes the arrows tuned exactly the same because I was using the Nitro Stingers that spine from 60-100#.The heavy arrow always had more momentum and more ke but did not always do better but the differences were usually very minor except for when I used a 75 gr point on the heavy arrow and the foc was way low.


The key is to have a well balanced arrow that is spined right and a bow that you can shoot accurately.Penetration will be fine.Concentrate on the arrow setup and the tune of the bow more than anything.I would suggest to stay in the parameters that the AMO gives and everyone should be fine. www.bowjackson.com has them listed.

For the record ,speed is overrated,even in the 3d game.I shoot 268 to hunt and 3d and most bows today can achieve that and they don't have to be raticall.


I shot today from the money stake and shot 12 up and was tied for 2nd when I left and the person that I was tied with was shooting 280 and this was an IBO shoot counting center 12's.That is pretty slow for IBO.


Just what I have found to be true for me and my bow and your bows may be completely different.

Arthur P

I wonder what kind of hydraulics were going on inside that water-filled arrow, TFOX.

I'm glad to see others don't care that much for speed. Seems all everyone ever talks about is speed these days, and nobody ever hears about the other side of the coin. And some people seem to get defensive when people do start talking about that other side.