Elkcrazy8

TFOX, Just for the record I am shooting at 280 fet per second with my two bladed cut on inpact. I have to so my KE will be up. I have never had a problem with tuning these heads. I am consistant with these and can put them in there with my broadheads up to 60 yds. I had no reason to practice beyond that. I shoot in the wind most of the time as the wind is always blowing in the desert. I spend ALOT of time tuning my bow and it is an involved process. I start out with paper tuning and then finish it up with bare shaft tuning. At the present I have got my bare shafts to hit in the same spot as my fletched arrows with field points on, at 30 yrds. My FOC is at its optimum to prevent the head of the arrow from diving or lifting, two of the contributing factors to wind planing. As I said before, the width is 1 in. Which is 1/8 above the size that you said will not shoot as accurate. I am shooting a 423 grn arrow at 66#. I have done my homework and know that when I pick a spot on the animal, my fixed blade WILL be there. I have also done tests on the muzzy phantoms, another cut on impact two blade. The flight characteristis are the same as the modocs in which I was shooting. I will be going to these because of the fact that they are made with tighter tolerances as far as grn weight and also because of the Wider cutting blade. Again. These flew just the same. So to wrap it up. I have found that it is possible to obtain hairsplitting accuracy with a fixed blade broadhead along with undeniable penetration through a properly tuned bow. Aren't those the two things that all archers look for in broadhead choice? If I can get that kind of accuracy at 60 yrds. I sould have no problem inside my hunting max. range of 30 yrds. Most of my shots are under 15. I am not willing to make ANY sacrafices. I am not downing the use of mechanicals on deer. However I will dispute the fact that fixed blades can't be shot with hairsplitting accuracy. Things that will effect the flight of a fixed blade are, imroperly tuned bow, incorrect arrow spine, poor form, brace height below the shooters capability, poor fletching clearance, excitement, obstacles, and yes wind. If the wind is strong enough to mess up broadhead flight then it is probably blowing too hard to hold steady. If you look at all these factors,they can be applied to the mechancal tipped arrows also. Other than the wind, I can control all of the above. In the wind mechanicals have there downfall also, If the arrow is not going in straight because of the wind. The weight is not completely behind the arrow and losing the much needed KE to penetrate. Most people I have seen lighten their arrows to boost up the speeds to use the mech. heads. Lighter arrows are effected more by the wind. This is what I have found. People have been posting about situations an not showing us what situations. Proper tuning and knowing your limitations is what it boils down to. We are all going to have our limitations. No matter what we decide to use. Can I make a 60 yrd shot on an animal. Yes , probably about 95% of the time. Do I take percentage shots,NO. I know that within 30yrds, that animal is about to become table fair every time. Thats where knowing your limitations comes into play.

robinhood11x

It's all in the conetic energy .less than 50 lbs you hit a shoulder blade and i don;t care bow make model with a mechanical broadhead kiss the animal good buy cause you won't see it again.It takes conetic energy to make a mechanical blade work properly,and shot placement.but if your shot is good what makes the difference in broadheads?I shoot muzzy 75 's,I have shot Rocket steele heads,hit a shoulder broke the tip off the broadhead, folded up and fell out of the deer .A fixed broadhead would have stayed in the carcuss and did some seriouse internal damage.Now say what you will about the mechanical.LOL there a joke .indians hunted for 1000 years harvest bigger animals with less sufisticated equipment than we have to date.LOL again

Arthur P

Which was the point I was making in reply to your earlier comment:

That statement equated ALL 'good' mechanicals with ALL 'good' fixed blade heads, without regard to design, cutting diameter or energy requirements.

As far as testing in artificial materials, if you believe in them, then I can show you a test that will prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is no mechanical or fixed, replaceable blade head that can penetrate better than a 2 blade cut on impact. Steelforce has a video of such a 'test', one they were playing at the pro shop one day. Bag target, 70 pound compound, carbon arrows, shooting replaceable blade fixed heads and mechs. The fixed and mechs would penetrate about 6" and stop. The Steelforce heads constantly blew right through the bag and stuck deeply in the foam backstop behind it. Then they shot the Steelforce head through the bag using a 45 pound recurve with the same results.

I consider that test to be just as valid (or invalid) as any other test using artificial target mediums.

Of course, then there are Dr Ashby's findings from his Africa broadhead effectiveness study.

Elkcrazy8

Arther P ,I have actually taken chunks of meat that were discarded from a slaughter house. Bones and all and tested various broadheads on them. I was astonished at how a cut on impact out cut all of them. In the bone it acted as a maul and split through the bone. Thats what turned me on to cut on impact. I may be shooting a compound , however the old broadhead technology will never be improved upon IMO. They can keep the steel drum test. It might help if you were hunting terminators from the furture. But doesn't show me anything about shooting an animal. Just for kicks last year we took a normal 3 blade and a zwicky and tried to push them with our hands through several layers of carpet . The cut on impact went through like butter. The normal 3 blade needed almost all of our body weight to get started. I guess we know what to use if ever attacked by a carpet monster.

RTA47

CARPET MOSTER-LOL go elkcrazy8

buckshot47

robinhood11x you said that a muzzy would have stayed in well don't be so sure. A friend of mine went to kansas this year one of the people that went with him shot a buck with 100 gr. muzzy hit the leg bone right below the shoulder and bounced out like it hit a brick wall and they got it all on video. A hunter that came the next week killed the same buck and they examined it and the muzzy did very little damage

Arthur P

buckshot & robinhood, now we're back to talking shot placement again. You cannot blame poor penetration or poor performance on the broadhead, no matter what kind it is, when it's the hunter's sorry shooting that's at fault.

buckshot47

Thats true I was just pointing out that it can happen with any type of broadhead because he said that all mechanicals were a joke. I've been useing vortx for a few years and have killed several deer out to 45yrds. have not lost one yet

TFOX

Yes Arthur you are right,I know better than to make a blanket statement without explaining each and every detail.They will always get taken out of the intended context.


As for test results,I don't usually believe the test results of the actuall manufacturer of the product.I prefer independant testing.I also do not agree with all of them but I do agree with the ones in question.


I never stated any 3 blade(fixed or mechanical) would outpenetrate a 2 blade,I don't think that is going to happen except maybe in an extreme case.Cutting diameter of course plays a role.



Elkcrazy,I am glad for you.If you have 2 blade broadheads that are as forgiving as mechanicals,then great.I also have my fixed blade broadheads,that I used this year tuned to hit the same groups out to 60 yards with my fieldpoints.It wasn't untill I started shooting the crazy off the wall shots did the forgiveness factor show up.I will be back with mechanicals next year.


I really don't get the statement that you have the speed up to 280 for ke to be up.Don't you mean you have the poundage up for ke.You could increase the weight of the arrow and the speed will go down but the ke will go up even more.

Arthur P

Yeah, I know. Just threw that in there amongst the 'all' category.

Nuff said.