what is the dislike for mechanicals?
02-01-2004, 10:12 PM
#31
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 9
RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
Switched to mechanicals (spitfire 100s) last year. Two of my buddies started shooting the same heads this year after my sucess last year. Between the three of us, we shot 13 deer this year, at different angles from 6 to 28 yds. All deer dropped in sight, except for one which was a bad shot, hit in the neck and missed the artery, but still dropped after 60 yds. Several of the deer were not hit "perfact", but from the size of the hole and amount of blood loss, luckily not a problem. The guy at my local archery shop suggests these heads to customers, and I've never heard anyone complain of their performance on deer. Just know your effective range and don't take low percentage shots.
02-01-2004, 10:15 PM
#32
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
Elkcrazy
I posted the Rockets would out penetrate most 3 blade heads.
I also stated that speed is a major factor.I'll bet you are not shooting blazing speeds with those 2 bladers,not to mention you have a rather small cutting diameter so you will see better flight characteristics and penetration than a larger fixed.
I should have stated earlier that a mechanical will be more accurate when all conditions are taken into account.I went back an reread my earlier post and could see where someone might have misunderstood that I was saying a fixed head wouldn't be accurate.
I have done more homework than you can imagine and I will stand by my statements that it isn't possible for a fixed head above 7/8" to be as accurate in ALL CONDITIONS as a GOOD mechanical. Now look at that statement,nowhere did I say that fixed heads would not be accurate.I myself have a bow tuned to shoot the same groups with mechanical or fixed BUT when outside forces are applied,such as wind , torque,and/or speed,the mechanicals have a distinct advantage.
I am not trying to bash fixed in the same way most are trying to bash mechanicals,just posting their advantages and yes,they have advantages.Some more than others.
I posted the Rockets would out penetrate most 3 blade heads.
I also stated that speed is a major factor.I'll bet you are not shooting blazing speeds with those 2 bladers,not to mention you have a rather small cutting diameter so you will see better flight characteristics and penetration than a larger fixed.
I should have stated earlier that a mechanical will be more accurate when all conditions are taken into account.I went back an reread my earlier post and could see where someone might have misunderstood that I was saying a fixed head wouldn't be accurate.
I have done more homework than you can imagine and I will stand by my statements that it isn't possible for a fixed head above 7/8" to be as accurate in ALL CONDITIONS as a GOOD mechanical. Now look at that statement,nowhere did I say that fixed heads would not be accurate.I myself have a bow tuned to shoot the same groups with mechanical or fixed BUT when outside forces are applied,such as wind , torque,and/or speed,the mechanicals have a distinct advantage.
I am not trying to bash fixed in the same way most are trying to bash mechanicals,just posting their advantages and yes,they have advantages.Some more than others.
02-01-2004, 11:25 PM
#33
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
TFOX, tell me one setup of legal draw weight that a fixed blade head absolutely will not work on. Then outline the parameters for what setups should NEVER use any mechanical, regardless of cutting diameter. Then outline what animals should NOT be hunted with mechanicals, because of their size and toughness.
When shot out of a well tuned bow, with adequate energy and good shot placement on medium size game, they can and do produce excellent results. Poorly tuned bow, inadequate energy, bad shot placement and we wind up with yet another 'mechanical broadhead failure' thread to argue about. Not so?
One of the two overriding faults of mechanical heads is that they require a certain level of energy to do their job. Too many people with too little energy are using mechanicals, mostly because they hear all the rave reviews about them, from guys that are generally using enough energy to down an 18-wheeler. The other fault is the inescapable fact that too many people are using them because they simply cannot get fixed blade heads to fly straight. As you yourself have repeatedly pointed out, a well tuned bow is even more critical with mechanicals than it is for fixed blade heads.
Penetration tests... We've covered this ground time and time again and now, once again, I feel compelled to point out that the penetration tests you and everyone else keep referring to are made on foam or other assorted artificial materials. I never have, and never will, agree that the results obtained from those 'tests' can - in any way, shape, form or fashion - accurately predict actual results on skin, flesh and bone. It's like saying that taking a capsule of vitamin E is good for you, so taking a capsule of cyanide will be good for you too. Things do not work that way.
Anyway, taking all things into consideration, it is flat impossible to say that mechanicals are just as good as, or better, then fixed blade heads. For well tuned setups that produce adequate energy, good accuracy and limited to deer size game, then maybe I couldn't disagree with that too much. I know what you're saying when you point out they shoot more accurately in windy conditons and such, but you should have qualified that comment when you made it instead of making it sound like a blanket endorsement.
When shot out of a well tuned bow, with adequate energy and good shot placement on medium size game, they can and do produce excellent results. Poorly tuned bow, inadequate energy, bad shot placement and we wind up with yet another 'mechanical broadhead failure' thread to argue about. Not so?
One of the two overriding faults of mechanical heads is that they require a certain level of energy to do their job. Too many people with too little energy are using mechanicals, mostly because they hear all the rave reviews about them, from guys that are generally using enough energy to down an 18-wheeler. The other fault is the inescapable fact that too many people are using them because they simply cannot get fixed blade heads to fly straight. As you yourself have repeatedly pointed out, a well tuned bow is even more critical with mechanicals than it is for fixed blade heads.
Penetration tests... We've covered this ground time and time again and now, once again, I feel compelled to point out that the penetration tests you and everyone else keep referring to are made on foam or other assorted artificial materials. I never have, and never will, agree that the results obtained from those 'tests' can - in any way, shape, form or fashion - accurately predict actual results on skin, flesh and bone. It's like saying that taking a capsule of vitamin E is good for you, so taking a capsule of cyanide will be good for you too. Things do not work that way.
Anyway, taking all things into consideration, it is flat impossible to say that mechanicals are just as good as, or better, then fixed blade heads. For well tuned setups that produce adequate energy, good accuracy and limited to deer size game, then maybe I couldn't disagree with that too much. I know what you're saying when you point out they shoot more accurately in windy conditons and such, but you should have qualified that comment when you made it instead of making it sound like a blanket endorsement.
02-02-2004, 05:30 AM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Bremen, GA.
Posts: 2,091
RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
Here we go again! the same topic as before. fixed and mechs, I have agreed and disagreed on statements about mechs,the biggest question about mechanicals is penetration! bar none. Will they work and penetrat as well as fixed blade? and will they solve the problem many archers have with windplain from a fixed blade head.not all archers has the problems that we all have talked about! and can shot a fixed blade head just fine!for them great don`t change! not many archers would if they worked that good for them ether.I will agree that the energy of a bow makes a big diffrence when using mechs at least on some type`s i have used all kind of mech`s and fixed blade alike.And i will say there are junk fixed blades and mechanicals! on the market today. But there is a type of head on the market today that i found a while back and is my choice when using a mechanical head. it is name brand that in the past never gave much thought to. but they seems to be on the right track when talking about penitration and good arrow flight! it is GAMETRACKERS FISRTCUT EXP BROADHEAD! I would like any every one that can check out this head! It is a one inch fixed blade. that when entering it`s target will open two bleeder blades on the other side. this type head should get the vote`s of a fixed blade shooter as well as a mech shooter. after all it is both type`s in one! no matter if the blades don`t open the head will still get the job done! this broadhead has my vote!
02-02-2004, 06:25 AM
#35
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: baltimore,md
Posts: 547
RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
If it's not broke,why fix it?I've killed over 30 deer in the last 4 years using NAP Spitfires and Shockwaves,90% have been total passthoughs.Actually,I'm disappointed when I don't get a passthough.Of course,shot placement is key,and I don't take "risky"shots.The NAP products have never failed to perform,and I keep my side of the bargain up by keeping my eqiupment in tune,making good clean shots,and driving a 413gr.arrow at 282fps...Bob
02-02-2004, 06:33 AM
#36
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: crawfordville florida USA
Posts: 1,251
RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
Each to their own. I dont dislike the mechanicals. I just dont see what the big hype is about them. Do they cut better than fixed blades?No. Do they fly better than fixed blades? Not if your bow is tuned properly. Is there greater chance of a malfunction with Mechs. Yes.
02-02-2004, 08:21 AM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,693
RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
ORIGINAL: TFOX
Is it just me or isn't a bow a mechanical device.Isn't a rest a mechanical device.Isn't a release a mechanical device.Heck,a rifle is a mehanical device.If these things fail they can kill the person behind it.A bow could fail and hurt the person behind it really bad and send an arrow of course causing a bad hit.If we look hard enough we can find enough reasons to just stay home and watch t.v. instead of getting out and doing what we love.
Is it just me or isn't a bow a mechanical device.Isn't a rest a mechanical device.Isn't a release a mechanical device.Heck,a rifle is a mehanical device.If these things fail they can kill the person behind it.A bow could fail and hurt the person behind it really bad and send an arrow of course causing a bad hit.If we look hard enough we can find enough reasons to just stay home and watch t.v. instead of getting out and doing what we love.
Good point, so let me clarify what I was trying to say: The more mechanical a set up is, the more chance it has of breaking down. Sure bows are mechanical, but why not keep things simple, especially the very thing that has the potential to kill or wound a deer. All the crap we can put all over our compounds these days is crazy. Most of this stuff was put on the market because companies know that bowhunters will buy it. That's why I love a recurve - stick and a string, and an arrow and broadhead.
02-02-2004, 08:28 AM
#39
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,693
RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
ORIGINAL: TFOX
I have done more homework than you can imagine and I will stand by my statements that it isn't possible for a fixed head above 7/8" to be as accurate in ALL CONDITIONS as a GOOD mechanical. Now look at that statement,nowhere did I say that fixed heads would not be accurate.I myself have a bow tuned to shoot the same groups with mechanical or fixed BUT when outside forces are applied,such as wind , torque,and/or speed,the mechanicals have a distinct advantage.
I have done more homework than you can imagine and I will stand by my statements that it isn't possible for a fixed head above 7/8" to be as accurate in ALL CONDITIONS as a GOOD mechanical. Now look at that statement,nowhere did I say that fixed heads would not be accurate.I myself have a bow tuned to shoot the same groups with mechanical or fixed BUT when outside forces are applied,such as wind , torque,and/or speed,the mechanicals have a distinct advantage.
To each his own obviously, but I'm not buying into that statement however you meant it. Maybe if you're talking about 40-50 yard shots, then I can see a slight advantage. But at normal bow range, inside 30 yards, mechanicals are not more accurate than fixed. I have proven this to myself. They have no advantage for accuracy at all. At 30 yards shooting out of a tree, I can put a mech or a fixed in an apple. With the same bow, nothing changed. Your pins are on or they aren't. You can shoot or you can't. JMO
02-02-2004, 11:37 AM
#40
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: what is the dislike for mechanicals?
Arthur,I am stating I like mechanicals for the same reasons you like deflex risers.(As do I) but I prefer to hunt with a bow with moderate reflex because of my low poundage.I also couldn't agree with you more about energy and the amount needed but their are some that do as well as a 3 bladed fixed head.I can attest to that because of real world accounts,not test written in magazines,although I do agree with the tests results.MY KE IS USUALLY BETWEEN 56-58 FT/LB.
Badshotbob,
That is exactly what I am pointing out,if I have what I would call a good 40-50 yard shot,then I will take it and I can be completely confident in a Rocket Steelhead(notice I didn't say mechanical,not all are as good with penetration as these)being accurate.I can't have the same confidence in a fixed.Also when leaning out around a tree ,there is no doubt about torquing the bow,you will need a setup that will allow some forgiveness.A deflex riser and /or a heavy,slow arrow with plenty of helical feather on the back is one way to accomplish this.Another is by using a well tuned moderately reflexed bow of choice with a mechanical on the arrow.
I practice all of these scenarios and I can make a shot at 40 yards with my body pointing away at about 120 deg angle from the target on my knees with a mechanical but I can't make as good of a shot with a fixed.That is the type of forgiveness I am talking about.Extreme type situations.
I have said about everything I can and feel if you don't understand what I am saying by now,then you just won't get it untill you start trying some of the type shots that I do.You never know when you might be cought off guard in the woods and need to make a kneeling shot around a tree.You must first need to be skilled at the shot and secondly you must have confidence in your equipment.
I am climbing down off my soap box now, have a good day.
Badshotbob,
That is exactly what I am pointing out,if I have what I would call a good 40-50 yard shot,then I will take it and I can be completely confident in a Rocket Steelhead(notice I didn't say mechanical,not all are as good with penetration as these)being accurate.I can't have the same confidence in a fixed.Also when leaning out around a tree ,there is no doubt about torquing the bow,you will need a setup that will allow some forgiveness.A deflex riser and /or a heavy,slow arrow with plenty of helical feather on the back is one way to accomplish this.Another is by using a well tuned moderately reflexed bow of choice with a mechanical on the arrow.
I practice all of these scenarios and I can make a shot at 40 yards with my body pointing away at about 120 deg angle from the target on my knees with a mechanical but I can't make as good of a shot with a fixed.That is the type of forgiveness I am talking about.Extreme type situations.
I have said about everything I can and feel if you don't understand what I am saying by now,then you just won't get it untill you start trying some of the type shots that I do.You never know when you might be cought off guard in the woods and need to make a kneeling shot around a tree.You must first need to be skilled at the shot and secondly you must have confidence in your equipment.
I am climbing down off my soap box now, have a good day.