445 supermag

I passed these kind of deer every waiting for a MATURE deer to come by..

Great bucks. What state are they from.

Brian

Jay Hunter

Atlasman, I have wrote only two post to you, and was simply trying to explain that a P&Y buck is hard to kill, no matter what land you hunt. And more importantly, i do believe harvesting a 150" + buck would be twive as exciting and 10x as challenging where Zelazny is than harvesting a scrub rack in our fine state of NY. Harvesting that 2.5 year old 8pt that you or I may put on the wall may come a little easier in those parts, but that 150 class buck will always be more elusive than the 1.5 year olds that fills your the freezer.
Also, in no way do I feel anything I said was offensive. I never met a city hunter that didnt mind being called a city hunter, a redneck that didnt mind being called a redneck, or a meat hunter that didnt mind being called a meat hunter. And you so very carefully turned it around to almost make me sound like a racist. It was very insulting and ever so far from the truth.
Your debating skills are superior, that of a politician losing a battle and trying to freeze the competing candidate with statements that are irrelevant yet attention getters, in order to loose focus of the battle being lost. I commened your efforts, but will no longer bicker with you(this time). Try starting something on another post would ya!...oh wait, you already did.

atlasman

You said that all already.

Your first post speaks for itself pretty clearly.

slicendice

You know, it' s hard to believe that a post that started with someone sharing pictures of nice bucks has turned into such a pissing contest. Instead of saying,
" Good luck on these monsters, let us know how you do." , it' s turned into a real free-for-all. People calling others liars, people doubting others skills, ect, ect.

This is exactly why I visit this site on a very limited basis anymore. It seems every post always turns into some kind of arguement. Some one questions the poster, or berates them. And it always seems like the same few guys that are always posting the negative posts. The same few guys that never have a positive thing to say. The same guys that are always accusing others of different things (such as lying or what have you).

There are alot of good guys on here with alot of valuable knowledge to share, but it seems like there' s always one or two guys that just have to post something negative, then a thread like this one, turns into a 4 page verbal wrestling match.

I made a post about a month ago and was verbally berated and called all sorts of things. I was called a poacher, unethical, ect, ect. This is the first time I' ve been back since that post and this is what I find.

My suggestion before I go quietly into the night, if you don' t have something positive or constructive to say, just let it be. Guys don' t come on this post to get put down or accused of things. They come here for comradery and advice. I' m not pointing fingers because I' m sure everyone knows who those few " Negative Neds" are, but if you have to take pleasure in belittling and accusing, then I believe you have no place in being here.

I' m not saying there shouldn' t be debates. Not everyone should agree on everything. If the topic is " what is the best bow" or " what is the best broadhead" or " what state has the best bucks" , these are topics for opinions and debates. A topic about " Is this buck big enough for ya??" is probably not a place for a heated debate.

Z and Eastwood, good luck hunting these bucks, and I' m sorry you had to hear such grief after you were kind enough to share these photos with us.


Slice

Zelazny

Atlasman - You just don' t get it. What you are really saying is that when guys draw special tags, or if they hunt in a state that has big deer (like yours ironically) that the taking of one probably means they are hunting high fences or something like that because hey, if it was as hard as YOUR hunting is you' d be killing those big bucks too. That is what you' re saying, that because you cannot kill big bucks year after year there must be something to it that others do.

I' ll take my KS hunting ANY day over hunting scrub bucks someplace else. And I' ll say it again ... shooting a mature whitetail ANYWHERE is never easy. Easier because there are more of them ... maybe, but that doesn' t make it EASY in any way, shape or form unless you' re hunting high fences.

slicendice - It doesn' t bother me much really. If I hunt hard all this next week in KS and shoot a 150" deer, I' ve done something IMO. The same weeks hunting in Alabama public land might yield at best a basket rack 8 pointer ... both are trophies, both are something to be proud of , and I' ll probably take the corn fed KS buck evry time if I had a choice ! I like a full freezer, and I like big racks. I can' t help it !

BTW atlasman - what kind of bow do you shoot ?

nub

Stealthycat posting under an alias? Thought he quit this board.

Zelazny

nub - Funny things happen in this world, don' t they ?

atlasman

Obviously you don' t get it because that is NOT what I am saying at all. This has NOTHING to do with me and what kind of bucks I kill........you make it sound like I am just full of sour grapes because I wish I could kill bigger bucks. If I see a big buck I will kill it, no question.......it is not however the driving force behind my season and if it doesn' t happen I will not lose 1 minutes sleep over it. I will be much more disappointed if I have no meat to eat this year.

You have twisted this discussion into something entirely different then what it actually is to make yourself feel better..........which is why you posted the pics in the first place.......so you could sit back and read everyone tell you how jealous they are of your honey hole.

The deer are great........I have said that.

Drag a 150" + buck out of there and people who know that area will say " good deer" .......because they see them all the time.

Drag a 150" + buck out of most public hunting grounds that have unlimited access to the public and no one " growing" the deer for you and mouths will hit the floor and people will talk about it for 3 counties in each direction.

Why does one deer draw more shock and awe at the truck?? Because a deer like that is only seen one in a blue moon in most places and is the equivalent of winning the state land hunting lottery no matter how hard you worked or got lucky........it just isn' t a common sight. In the other place it IS a common sight so the wide eyes and open mouths at the road are not there because a deer like that being dragged out surprises and shocks no one.

That is my point and my opinion. You keep stressing how I am so wrong. How can my opinion be wrong?? Different then yours maybe.....but that doesn' t mean it' s wrong.

I know the deer aren' t about to jump in your truck and say " kill me" I am not trying to belittle your kill...........I just don' t see how you can sit there and expect people to believe that it isn' t easier to kill a huge buck where you are going then in most places the average Joe gets to hunt. If it wasn' t easier everyone would have a buck like that on the wall. If it is easier then it logically would be less exciting and rewarding.......like climbing to the top of a mountain.........but you started half way up.


Exactly........and anything accomplished easier then the usual ways will not carry the same amount of excitement or pride IMO.

You seem to dislike game farm hunting where guys can drop some money and kill a huge fenced in buck that is grown to be a trophy............the difference between that and your place is there is no fence. If you look at game farms and shake your head wondering how someone could be proud of a deer they took that way..........you should at least understand on some level how your situation can be viewed the same way from the outside...........to a much less extent for sure but the comparisons are not that far off. Deer are grown for racks, hunting pressure minimal, hoss bucks all over the place...................not exactly real life conditions an average hunter sees day to day.


2003 Bowtech Patriot Single Cam.

Geez, I wonder what you' re getting at?? I should feel less excitement and satisfaction killing a deer with a compound then you get out of killing one with your longbow right??

Thank you for that...............now I KNOW you understand my opinion and most likely share it based on your use of a longbow and dislike of farm hunting. You don' t want to feel like you took the easy road............you do things the old fashioned way.......the hard way if you will. You are just not used to being on the recieving end of a discussion like this.

Zelazny

And there you go, that is what you are not getting. A better example would be you climbing the biggest mtn in NY and me climbing the biggest mtn in my state (my mtns being bigger because of geography) and you saying my accomplishment isn' t as great as yours because your mtns just aren' t as big. Right ?


What outside Atlasman ? I hunt public land, I do not have a lease in my home state. I DO find the out of the way places, the special permits, the military bases and the bowhunting onl areas ... something a lot of hunters like you I think do not. Jay Hunter said

" And I can guarantee you if you do your research on special draw permits in NY, you' ll find more than one area that that applies to. I know its not in your blue hunting regulations book you picked up from the town clerk' s when you bought your liscense, but there out there, several being in bow only areas(hint!, hint!).

Did you read that ? Do you think he' s lying ? The opportunity of special draws for special hunts is in almost evry state if not every state.


Thats EXACTLY my point. I won' t belittle your kills because you choose use high tech equipment thats easier than my choice of weapons. I would not post to your buck kills " well, for a compound its nice, but you' d get more respect if you' d shot it with a Bodark branch, cane shafts and obsidian head." You seem to think maybe its only about the area and quality of bucks there. I submit that its NOT only about that. Its about how you hunt and what you hunt with too. I' ll pass more quality racked bucks in KS these next 7 days than I' ll see in my home state all year. Choice, making the hunt harder for me. Whereas you might shoot the first spike that comes through, some hunters wait and wait for the larger bucks - its all choice.

BTW - your home state of NY has many more big bucks than mine as a general rule. Your deer are a sub-species thats just plain bigger because you' re much farther north. Does that take away from your kills ? No, not at all. Kill the best bucks your area has to offer - and you' ve done something. If its 120" great, if its 220" great too. Me ? I' ll take the 220" anyday over the 120" though if I get the choice.

atlasman

I don' t know why you are having such trouble understanding me. It' s not the size of the mountain........it' s how you climbed it.

You said it yourself..........it is easier to get a big daddy buck where you are going because there are more there. IMO anything achieved by an easier method results in less of an accomplishment........not that it means nothing.......just not as much.



I have already addressed that issue. I have hunted many of the places he mentioned and they issue permits more to count numbers and know who' s in there day to day then anything else. The permits are not hard to get, they don' t cost money and in many areas all you have to do is check in at the entrance. They provide places for the public to hunt........not a secluded farm where they plant crops to " grow" deer that people can pay to come and kill if they are one of the chosen few...........BIG difference.


The fact that you brought it up shows you think compounds are easier.........everyone with a brain knows what you were getting at


But you could........and it wouldn' t offend me at all!!! Your damn right a kill like you describe above deserves more respect.......it IS harder then me zipping arrows out of my Patriot with a release.....no question. I' ll be the first one in line to say someone that kills with the methods you listed went a harder road then me zipping carbons around at 270 fps with all the bells and whistles of technology in my bag. I' m not embarrassed that I hunt with a compound.....hell I kill deer every year with a shotgun too and that' s even easier.....no sense pretending it' s not.

Here is a list for you.......tell me if you agree or disagree.

Easiest to hardest weapons to kill a deer with

Gun-----crossbow-----compound-----traditional----knife/spear(you never know


Easiest to hardest land to kill a monster on

Game farm---your place and/or non fenced ranch---private land--public battlefields


Keep in mind that these lists in no way belittle any deer killed by what I deem the easier methods..........I am just a realist and choose not to pretend killing a deer is the same no matter where or how you do it.