Rack-attack

You noticed that didn' t you

Nope - not really - I am easily lead to the edge of the cliff Art, but its a little harder to get me to jump. Going to let this season pass and see what NEW STUFF comes out next year..........LOL....Those .00015 carbons are right around the corner I feel it

Maccjo

OK I,m going to stir the pot. I shoot Carbon Express and can not recall haveing a problem with the straightness or grouping with or without broadheads.........

Arthur P

Jeff... All that' s missing from that sob story is the violin music in the background.

Let me get this straight... You' re making it sound like you don' t like Easton XX' s because they shoot TOO good, destroying them by group tuning and such, while you don' t have that problem with AC' s. Now, AC' s also use a uni-bushing, so why aren' t you destroying just as many of them? Surely you aren' t saying AC' s don' t group as tight, are you?


R-a, them good carbons are right around the corner, for sure. But who knows which corner??

JeffB

Arthur,

LOL, yeah after reading that it sounds pretty pitiful eh? True tale though.

I am saying Aluminum shoots very, very good (nothing is TOO good) I’m also saying that even with a Uni-bushing alum cannot take nearly the same amount of abuse that an A/C can. I’ve got several 3-49’s in my collection right now that have multiple dings from nock end hits that are still straight as they can be. An alum that took those hits would much more likely to be damaged significantly or destroyed as there is more surface area for a point to “catch” (less deflection): i.e an A/C (or any smaller diameter shaft) will tend to hit and deflect off without hitting the shaft elsewhere. On a big alum where you have a longer taper & wider uni, it you hit a nock, the point will tend to deflect and then catch the bigger surface area of the uni itself or crease on the back end of the shaft closest to the uni. An A/C with a smaller surface area will just tend to deflect the incoming arrow into the target proper, not other parts of the shaft. The wraps of carbon also take much more abuse if you do whack that area than alum will (obviously).

While I can just shoot different spots all the time w/ alum, since I rely mainly on group tuning, that only helps after I’ve destroyed several arrows in the process.

IME I get greater penetration from carbon’s smaller diameter, quicker recovery from a poor release, less drag past 30 yards, a quieter drawing arrow shaft (and it’s much quieter when I’m knock one around in the woods: a boon for me since I hunt on the ground) and I certainly can’t get the arrow speeds I find most forgiving for yardage errors with my draw length and poundage using alum. Not even w/ XX12 wall Ultra-Lite shafts. Even If I could, the absolute piss poor durability of XX12 & XX13 shafts is enough to make me yack just thinking about it

Arthur P

I sincerely believe the those thin wall shafts are directly responsible for carbons overly inflated reputation for durability. In comparison to those flying beer cans, carbon is indestructable.

But some carbon is just as bad, if not worse, than XX78' s for group tuning. I' m not much of a robin hooder. From the time I got first one till I got my 8th one took nearly 4 years. (YEAH, only two a year. I was shooting stickbows, alright?!?! Let me see you robin hood a 2219 with a cedar arrow at 45 yards using a longbow.) A few years back I started playing with GoldTips and found out that little set screw in the nocks makes a perfect guide right down the shaft. 5 robin hoods in one month. Only 2 arrows left out of a dozen. Thought they were wonderful arrows till I started trying to shoot broadheads on the blasted things.

And AC type shafts are not an option for me. Even if the price wasn' t a wallet strangler, the raw shafts are too short to make arrows out of.

Len in Maryland

If you don' t mind, I' ll just sit back and watch this thread.[&:][>:]

JeffB

LOL, Flying Beer Cans! Can I use that?

I don' t shoot any of the all-carbon shafts without uni-bushings, especially Goldtips, because I have found their nocks to be about the worst on the market. They are way too tight on the string, crack the back ends of the shaft w/ that set screw, and as you found are extremely brittle.

Do you use a rest that ends up around the berger button hole when you shoot a release Arthur? I can see you problem with not getting enough length even out of raw shafts with your draw length. If you were using a Golden Key Premier series, or a NAP3000 style that allows for a bit shorter arrow, sizes 3-49 and up are 32" plus. Assuming a 34" draw, even at the berger you can probably get away w/ a 33" arrow, and with the rests I mentioned you can set them back an inch or so w/out getting the hassle of a full blow overdraw.Of course that is, if you were even willing to fork out the dough.

You might also look into the Beman Matrix, which is a less expensive A/C option. They are not an A/C/C IMO but still a step up from most all carbons.

Arthur P

Jeff, back in the 80' s I shot an overdraw to get my arrows down to 31" . Had a bad experience with the overdraw when I was practicing with broadheads on a very windy day (gotta practice in all weather conditions, ya know). The arrow blew off the rest at full draw, bounced over the safety ledge, and the point lodged against my wrist. I had a devil of a time trying to keep from shooting that arrow through my wrist while going through all kinds of gyrations to get loose. The overdraw went away and I wouldn' t shoot one again for anything.

Now, I' ll set the rest about an inch behind the buttonhole, but that' s as far as I' ll take it back. I can get away with 32" shafts on my compound by doing that. And I can do 32" arrows on my longbow, but must have 33" for the recurve.

By the way, my current rest is the Cavalier FreeFlyte Micro flipper. My Golden Premier is socked away in the junk drawer along with all my releases. Maybe I just need to go back to release, buy a 28" draw bow and shoot with a 5" long string loop.

BenfromVa

Now that would be a sight, LOL

JeffB

Arthur,

I hear ya about overdraws. I’ve had a few hairy experiences too with an ol Golden Eagle Pro Predator, and those cheap fiberglass overdraws they used to make for them.

Now, I wanna know what kind of friggin wind you were shooting in that would cause an 1980’s era 31” aluminum to fly off your rest? It must have been a hurricane strength to get one of those logs up in the air! .

And had you been shooting carbon with it’s much smaller diameter, less drag, and greater wind resistance that would have never happened!

Well, I don’t have any 3-71’s layin’ around these days (I sent ‘em to Frank), otherwise I’d send ya a few to try. I’ve got some raw shaft Blackhawk CAA 3-60’s that might be long enough for ya. They are not A/C/C’s but they aren’t too bad. I’ll go measure ‘em and see if they will work for ya. If so, I’ll send ‘em to ya just to try. I might also have an A/C/C 3-60 or two bare shafts laying around, though I’m not positive. I have all the components, you’ll just need to fletch em up, and install the inserts & G-nocks

I’ll PM ya this evening when I find out what I have.