Unbreakable shafts and " bone-busting" broadheads
08-05-2003, 08:41 PM
#51
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Blossvale, New York
Posts: 21,199
RE: Unbreakable shafts and " bone-busting" broadheads
I have always said I don' t hunt steel drums.... BUT... the tests do separate the wild claims from the valid ones. If you hunt long enough you' ll hit a bone. It' s nice to have one on the end of the arrow that gives you a chance. I' ve busted through more than one shoulder and was glad I did have a winner up front.
08-05-2003, 09:41 PM
#52
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 1,862
RE: Unbreakable shafts and " bone-busting" broadheads
5 shot although I do not agree with methods you are using to test broadheads, I sincerely have no personal issues with you. In fact, I have had to grit my teeth a few times when some arguments I felt I had to present were to close to seeming as though my quarrel was with you personally, and not an opposing argument regarding the testing and scoring methods you are using.
The problem is, it appears that very few readers seem to understand that although some debates may sound personal, in all intent and purpose they are far from it. You cannot be well received and go against the grain of others at the same time. However, the most complete and best information is often obtained from challenge. Challenge is often perceived as a direct assault upon a person' s veracity and intelligence. It worsens when you intentionally rattle someone' s cage to fire him or her up for the purpose of stronger arguments. Ever notice how some people tend to defend better when they are pissed-off?
Having said all that, I still believe the methods you use to test broadheads is excessive, and only show what broadheads can sometimes perform sufficiently well on wood, steel, and rubber, not what broadheads will most likely perform well on live animals.
PS: Keep in mind; most of the time when it seems I am talking directly to or about a person, in actuality I am talking past the person. As when I am challenging, most of the time I am soliciting. The person that decodes what I just said, wins a cigar. [8D]
The problem is, it appears that very few readers seem to understand that although some debates may sound personal, in all intent and purpose they are far from it. You cannot be well received and go against the grain of others at the same time. However, the most complete and best information is often obtained from challenge. Challenge is often perceived as a direct assault upon a person' s veracity and intelligence. It worsens when you intentionally rattle someone' s cage to fire him or her up for the purpose of stronger arguments. Ever notice how some people tend to defend better when they are pissed-off?
Having said all that, I still believe the methods you use to test broadheads is excessive, and only show what broadheads can sometimes perform sufficiently well on wood, steel, and rubber, not what broadheads will most likely perform well on live animals.
PS: Keep in mind; most of the time when it seems I am talking directly to or about a person, in actuality I am talking past the person. As when I am challenging, most of the time I am soliciting. The person that decodes what I just said, wins a cigar. [8D]
08-06-2003, 06:16 AM
#55
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jamestown SC USA
Posts: 760
RE: Unbreakable shafts and " bone-busting" broadheads
If 5 shots tests don' t accomplish anything else at all, they do weed out the broadheads that should never make it to the woods. I would much rather find out that the blades are going to fall out of a head or the ferrule is going to snap before I shoot it into a deer and wound it.
I would think that 5 shot has seen just about every head out there and when he says one is junk, you can pretty well bet, it' s junk and leave it in the store so you can spend your hard earned money on a quality head.
The other benefit to his test posts is that it brings out comments from those who have actually used the heads for hunting and often is the start of a good dialog discussing the pros and cons of that particular head under actual field conditions. All things considered, I think it is priceless information for free to those who are either new to bowhunting or don' t get many shots at deer and want the few shots they do get to count when the time comes.
It may not be science, but it sure ain' t propaganda.
I would think that 5 shot has seen just about every head out there and when he says one is junk, you can pretty well bet, it' s junk and leave it in the store so you can spend your hard earned money on a quality head.
The other benefit to his test posts is that it brings out comments from those who have actually used the heads for hunting and often is the start of a good dialog discussing the pros and cons of that particular head under actual field conditions. All things considered, I think it is priceless information for free to those who are either new to bowhunting or don' t get many shots at deer and want the few shots they do get to count when the time comes.
It may not be science, but it sure ain' t propaganda.
08-06-2003, 07:33 AM
#56
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 801
RE: Unbreakable shafts and " bone-busting" broadheads
5 Shot-
I understand you not being able to test with more than 1 kinetic energy setup, if for nothing other than financial reasons. But if you ever do, I' d love to read the results.
C903-
do you miss the debate team in you used to be on?
08-06-2003, 07:43 AM
#57
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: Unbreakable shafts and " bone-busting" broadheads
Keep in mind; most of the time when it seems I am talking directly to or about a person, in actuality I am talking past the person. As when I am challenging, most of the time I am soliciting. The person that decodes what I just said, wins a cigar.
08-06-2003, 10:56 AM
#59
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Sturgis, SD
Posts: 1,983
RE: Unbreakable shafts and " bone-busting" broadheads
c, you are correct I am stating MY opinion and belief on the subject, not trying to change your mind or prove you wrong, stating my position and defending it.
You speak so much of unverified tests and no standards to follow. So what is a verified test? What are the standards? Who gets to decide what they are? The companies that make the broadheads. Don' t think you will get reliable info there, look to the hoyt/mathews ads for your proof there. Who ultimately sets the standard. I understand you like to argue for arguments sake, I do as well, but once in a while you gotta take a stand, not just proofread what everyone else is saying. So what is the standard by which they should be judged?
5 shot has never claimed to be an expert, that was my opinion again. As far as I know no one else is out there doing what he is doing. Were he on the board proclaiming himself an expert I wouldn' t read his posts, nor would I put stock in his tests. From what I see in others posts, there are many on this board that would agree with that statement. This is how one attains that status, his peers decide. Many of them experienced bowhunters, the same people that are capable, in your opinion, of testing broadheads in field conditions, reporting the results and deciding what is good and what isn' t. The same people that can' t decide 5 shot is an expert or that his tests are valid? A quandry isn' t it.
Read the post in the tech forum on bow testing. Looks like I' m not the only one who worries about bias propaganda and the almighty dollar. I still maintain that 5 shot puts out a reliable, repeatable, comparison on the durability of broadheads available. He backs his statements up with facts, not with opinions.
You speak so much of unverified tests and no standards to follow. So what is a verified test? What are the standards? Who gets to decide what they are? The companies that make the broadheads. Don' t think you will get reliable info there, look to the hoyt/mathews ads for your proof there. Who ultimately sets the standard. I understand you like to argue for arguments sake, I do as well, but once in a while you gotta take a stand, not just proofread what everyone else is saying. So what is the standard by which they should be judged?
5 shot has never claimed to be an expert, that was my opinion again. As far as I know no one else is out there doing what he is doing. Were he on the board proclaiming himself an expert I wouldn' t read his posts, nor would I put stock in his tests. From what I see in others posts, there are many on this board that would agree with that statement. This is how one attains that status, his peers decide. Many of them experienced bowhunters, the same people that are capable, in your opinion, of testing broadheads in field conditions, reporting the results and deciding what is good and what isn' t. The same people that can' t decide 5 shot is an expert or that his tests are valid? A quandry isn' t it.
Read the post in the tech forum on bow testing. Looks like I' m not the only one who worries about bias propaganda and the almighty dollar. I still maintain that 5 shot puts out a reliable, repeatable, comparison on the durability of broadheads available. He backs his statements up with facts, not with opinions.
