Broadheads
06-03-2010, 10:21 AM
#12
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Henderson, KY
Posts: 1,760
Reasons a person might want to use an expandable even if their bow is well tuned.
1. Much like a field tip and expandable head is less affected by the wind.
2. Fixed blade heads are like poor shooting form amplifiers. Not much of a problem with shooting form standing on flat ground in the front yard. But 30 foot up a tree; leaning out around a limb, wearing a thick coat in freezing cold weather is another story. Mech heads are as forgiving in such circumstances as a field tip.
3. Lets say you have a 30 inch draw length and are shooting a 70 lb bow generating massive amounts of kinetic energy. Some people like that figure, "why waste all that kinetic energy driving a fixed head another three inches deeper in the ground behind a deer (which is of no extra advantage) when I could be using it to make a bigger hole in the deer". Ever try to tune a 1 3/4 or 2 inch fixed head to shoot well at 300 fps? That's where an expandable really shines. Flys like a field tip but cuts a hole way bigger than any fixed head you could get to fly well out of todays fast bows.
That said, I use both fixed and expandables. Both have their advantages in certain circumstances.
Random observations:
Don't use a mech head to cover for an untuned bow. Tune your bow!!!
Don't use a real wide diameter expandable if your bow doesn't have the power to push it all the way through a deer. Know this by actually shooting your bow through a chronograph and then plugging that speed and the weight of your arrow into the formula for kinetic energy.
The vast, vast, vast, majority of the "It didn't open stories" about expandables are horse ####.
I could give you a list of expandables that penetrate just as well as most fixed heads.
1. Much like a field tip and expandable head is less affected by the wind.
2. Fixed blade heads are like poor shooting form amplifiers. Not much of a problem with shooting form standing on flat ground in the front yard. But 30 foot up a tree; leaning out around a limb, wearing a thick coat in freezing cold weather is another story. Mech heads are as forgiving in such circumstances as a field tip.
3. Lets say you have a 30 inch draw length and are shooting a 70 lb bow generating massive amounts of kinetic energy. Some people like that figure, "why waste all that kinetic energy driving a fixed head another three inches deeper in the ground behind a deer (which is of no extra advantage) when I could be using it to make a bigger hole in the deer". Ever try to tune a 1 3/4 or 2 inch fixed head to shoot well at 300 fps? That's where an expandable really shines. Flys like a field tip but cuts a hole way bigger than any fixed head you could get to fly well out of todays fast bows.
That said, I use both fixed and expandables. Both have their advantages in certain circumstances.
Random observations:
Don't use a mech head to cover for an untuned bow. Tune your bow!!!
Don't use a real wide diameter expandable if your bow doesn't have the power to push it all the way through a deer. Know this by actually shooting your bow through a chronograph and then plugging that speed and the weight of your arrow into the formula for kinetic energy.
The vast, vast, vast, majority of the "It didn't open stories" about expandables are horse ####.
I could give you a list of expandables that penetrate just as well as most fixed heads.
06-03-2010, 02:21 PM
#13
Fork Horn
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 414
Fixed, there is no advantage to expandables unless you cant get you bow tuned imo, and going to expandables for that reason is just masking the problem. As for brands, i perfer slick trick but muzzy, nap, magnus, g5, innerlok and many others make good heads, just make sure there sharp!
Rear opening mechanical advantages:
1. Will ALWAYS fly better and more consistent in ALL hunting conditions from 0-60 yards. (wind, form, torque on the bow)
2. Bigger cutting diameters which means bigger entrance and exit holes which means consistently better blood trails.
3. With the large cutting diameters it will consistently put down game quicker.
4. With todays bows rear opening BH's will easily have efficient penetration. (I shoot 260fps and have had 5 for 5 passthroughs on mature Kansas and Iowa bucks with the Rage)
06-03-2010, 07:06 PM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Henderson, KY
Posts: 1,760
Hummmmm?
Rear opening mechanical advantages:
1. Will ALWAYS fly better and more consistent in ALL hunting conditions from 0-60 yards. (wind, form, torque on the bow)
2. Bigger cutting diameters which means bigger entrance and exit holes which means consistently better blood trails.
3. With the large cutting diameters it will consistently put down game quicker.
4. With todays bows rear opening BH's will easily have efficient penetration. (I shoot 260fps and have had 5 for 5 passthroughs on mature Kansas and Iowa bucks with the Rage)
Rear opening mechanical advantages:
1. Will ALWAYS fly better and more consistent in ALL hunting conditions from 0-60 yards. (wind, form, torque on the bow)
2. Bigger cutting diameters which means bigger entrance and exit holes which means consistently better blood trails.
3. With the large cutting diameters it will consistently put down game quicker.
4. With todays bows rear opening BH's will easily have efficient penetration. (I shoot 260fps and have had 5 for 5 passthroughs on mature Kansas and Iowa bucks with the Rage)
What weight arrow are u using?
06-03-2010, 07:22 PM
#15
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
1. Will ALWAYS fly better and more consistent in ALL hunting conditions from 0-60 yards. (wind, form, torque on the bow)
I've seen and shot enough different broadheads of both types to know this isn't as simple as you try to make it here and simply isn't always true.
2. Bigger cutting diameters which means bigger entrance and exit holes which means consistently better blood trails.
Bigger cutting diameter does not mean more tissue being cut. Diameter is but one part of the equation. You must consider the number of the blades doing the cutting as much as you do the diameter of the broadhead.
3. With the large cutting diameters it will consistently put down game quicker.
See #2.
4. With todays bows rear opening BH's will easily have efficient penetration. (I shoot 260fps and have had 5 for 5 passthroughs on mature Kansas and Iowa bucks with the Rage) Nearly any broadhead can pass through the ribs even from 35 pound youth bows. Square up on the shoulder blade and see what happens to a rage or any other super huge mechanical. It is a fact that super wide blades (even if you only have two of them) will consistantly penetrate less than a smaller diameter fixed head (even though the fixed may actually have more cutting ability) when you hit bone.
As drockw said, if it is mechanical it can and will eventually fail.
I've seen and shot enough different broadheads of both types to know this isn't as simple as you try to make it here and simply isn't always true.
2. Bigger cutting diameters which means bigger entrance and exit holes which means consistently better blood trails.
Bigger cutting diameter does not mean more tissue being cut. Diameter is but one part of the equation. You must consider the number of the blades doing the cutting as much as you do the diameter of the broadhead.
3. With the large cutting diameters it will consistently put down game quicker.
See #2.
4. With todays bows rear opening BH's will easily have efficient penetration. (I shoot 260fps and have had 5 for 5 passthroughs on mature Kansas and Iowa bucks with the Rage) Nearly any broadhead can pass through the ribs even from 35 pound youth bows. Square up on the shoulder blade and see what happens to a rage or any other super huge mechanical. It is a fact that super wide blades (even if you only have two of them) will consistantly penetrate less than a smaller diameter fixed head (even though the fixed may actually have more cutting ability) when you hit bone.
As drockw said, if it is mechanical it can and will eventually fail.
06-03-2010, 09:41 PM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Henderson, KY
Posts: 1,760
1. Will ALWAYS fly better and more consistent in ALL hunting conditions from 0-60 yards. (wind, form, torque on the bow)
I've seen and shot enough different broadheads of both types to know this isn't as simple as you try to make it here and simply isn't always true.
2. Bigger cutting diameters which means bigger entrance and exit holes which means consistently better blood trails.
Bigger cutting diameter does not mean more tissue being cut. Diameter is but one part of the equation. You must consider the number of the blades doing the cutting as much as you do the diameter of the broadhead.
3. With the large cutting diameters it will consistently put down game quicker.
See #2.
4. With todays bows rear opening BH's will easily have efficient penetration. (I shoot 260fps and have had 5 for 5 passthroughs on mature Kansas and Iowa bucks with the Rage) Nearly any broadhead can pass through the ribs even from 35 pound youth bows. Square up on the shoulder blade and see what happens to a rage or any other super huge mechanical. It is a fact that super wide blades (even if you only have two of them) will consistantly penetrate less than a smaller diameter fixed head (even though the fixed may actually have more cutting ability) when you hit bone.
As drockw said, if it is mechanical it can and will eventually fail.
I've seen and shot enough different broadheads of both types to know this isn't as simple as you try to make it here and simply isn't always true.
2. Bigger cutting diameters which means bigger entrance and exit holes which means consistently better blood trails.
Bigger cutting diameter does not mean more tissue being cut. Diameter is but one part of the equation. You must consider the number of the blades doing the cutting as much as you do the diameter of the broadhead.
3. With the large cutting diameters it will consistently put down game quicker.
See #2.
4. With todays bows rear opening BH's will easily have efficient penetration. (I shoot 260fps and have had 5 for 5 passthroughs on mature Kansas and Iowa bucks with the Rage) Nearly any broadhead can pass through the ribs even from 35 pound youth bows. Square up on the shoulder blade and see what happens to a rage or any other super huge mechanical. It is a fact that super wide blades (even if you only have two of them) will consistantly penetrate less than a smaller diameter fixed head (even though the fixed may actually have more cutting ability) when you hit bone.
As drockw said, if it is mechanical it can and will eventually fail.
It may fail to perform as specified, but the NAP bloodrunner's will always cut
I'm not a big mechanical head advocate or anything, but I always have an abundance of KE and choose to try and use the most of it I can, b/c truly, what good is an arrow that goes further in the dirt
Last year I had 97#'s only shooting 66#'s out of the bow haha.
06-04-2010, 06:42 AM
#17
Fork Horn
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 414
Dependability? Every BH can and will fail at one time or another and just because it's mechanical doesn't mean it will fail more often. I promise you the person behind the arrow will fail much more often than the BH. I shot fixed for 20 years and IMO I see Rage overall as a more dependable BH.
06-04-2010, 06:59 AM
#18
Fork Horn
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 414
1. Will ALWAYS fly better and more consistent in ALL hunting conditions from 0-60 yards. (wind, form, torque on the bow)
I've seen and shot enough different broadheads of both types to know this isn't as simple as you try to make it here and simply isn't always true.
Sorry but under hunting conditions using the same bow a mechanical will consistently shoot better than a fixed. Trying to say fixed with its exposed blades will fly better in wind, with heavy clothes on, shooting from an awkward position, with not perfect form with torque on the bow is simply being hardheaded when it comes to which head will fly better.
2. Bigger cutting diameters which means bigger entrance and exit holes which means consistently better blood trails.
Bigger cutting diameter does not mean more tissue being cut. Diameter is but one part of the equation. You must consider the number of the blades doing the cutting as much as you do the diameter of the broadhead.
I never said it was the whole equation but with the exact same shot placement with a 1 1/8" fixed and a 2" Rage you will 99.9% of the time get a better blood trail from the 2" Rage with the bigger hole.
And yes I understand the difference between cutting diameter and cutting surface.
Cutting diameter gives you the size of the hole.
Cutting surface gives you the amount of cutting within the cutting diameter.
3. With the large cutting diameters it will consistently put down game quicker.
See #2.
4. With todays bows rear opening BH's will easily have efficient penetration. (I shoot 260fps and have had 5 for 5 passthroughs on mature Kansas and Iowa bucks with the Rage) Nearly any broadhead can pass through the ribs even from 35 pound youth bows. Square up on the shoulder blade and see what happens to a rage or any other super huge mechanical. It is a fact that super wide blades (even if you only have two of them) will consistantly penetrate less than a smaller diameter fixed head (even though the fixed may actually have more cutting ability) when you hit bone.
Square up on the main part of the shoulder and see what happens to ANY BH.
As you can see from my statement above I never said it would penetrate better. I said with today's bows you have more than adequate penetration to get a passthrough
As drockw said, if it is mechanical it can and will eventually fail.
As will all BH's at one time or another. As I stated on the post above the person behind the arrow will fail a lot more than the BH will.
I've seen and shot enough different broadheads of both types to know this isn't as simple as you try to make it here and simply isn't always true.
Sorry but under hunting conditions using the same bow a mechanical will consistently shoot better than a fixed. Trying to say fixed with its exposed blades will fly better in wind, with heavy clothes on, shooting from an awkward position, with not perfect form with torque on the bow is simply being hardheaded when it comes to which head will fly better.
2. Bigger cutting diameters which means bigger entrance and exit holes which means consistently better blood trails.
Bigger cutting diameter does not mean more tissue being cut. Diameter is but one part of the equation. You must consider the number of the blades doing the cutting as much as you do the diameter of the broadhead.
I never said it was the whole equation but with the exact same shot placement with a 1 1/8" fixed and a 2" Rage you will 99.9% of the time get a better blood trail from the 2" Rage with the bigger hole.
And yes I understand the difference between cutting diameter and cutting surface.
Cutting diameter gives you the size of the hole.
Cutting surface gives you the amount of cutting within the cutting diameter.
3. With the large cutting diameters it will consistently put down game quicker.
See #2.
4. With todays bows rear opening BH's will easily have efficient penetration. (I shoot 260fps and have had 5 for 5 passthroughs on mature Kansas and Iowa bucks with the Rage) Nearly any broadhead can pass through the ribs even from 35 pound youth bows. Square up on the shoulder blade and see what happens to a rage or any other super huge mechanical. It is a fact that super wide blades (even if you only have two of them) will consistantly penetrate less than a smaller diameter fixed head (even though the fixed may actually have more cutting ability) when you hit bone.
Square up on the main part of the shoulder and see what happens to ANY BH.
As you can see from my statement above I never said it would penetrate better. I said with today's bows you have more than adequate penetration to get a passthrough
As drockw said, if it is mechanical it can and will eventually fail.
As will all BH's at one time or another. As I stated on the post above the person behind the arrow will fail a lot more than the BH will.
06-04-2010, 10:35 AM
#20
Fork Horn
Join Date: May 2006
Location:
Posts: 414
The design is that it will always open.
If you check your blades and make sure there snapped into the
o-ring they will not open in flight.
What can go wrong with a Rage that can't go wrong with a fixed?