It's Hard to Understand Some "Pro" Shops.
08-29-2009, 01:32 PM
#21
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
The Reezen def does not adhere to typical Mathews (singlecam) setup-
1) For many years Mathews has had the standard of 13/16" out from the riser for centershot. It used to be you could set it to that and assuming an appropriately spined arrow, arrow flight was on the money. The Reezen tunes quite a bit further in-5/8" is more common.
2) the Extreme reflex in the riser, makes it a bit more difficult than many other Mathews bows as well-if you have the typical problem of torquing a Mathews grip, it's really going to be an issue on the Reezen.
3) Idler wheel lean is more critical as well. It needs to be dead nuts- most of the other Mathews bows are a bit more forgiving in this regard. A twist or two out on one side can cause havoc.
Being that even when centershot and idler lean is corerct your sight pins are going to be way off center (I've yet to see one that isn't), I'd say the bow may have some issues with horizontal nock travel. A Whisker biscuit would definitely help tame this.
1) For many years Mathews has had the standard of 13/16" out from the riser for centershot. It used to be you could set it to that and assuming an appropriately spined arrow, arrow flight was on the money. The Reezen tunes quite a bit further in-5/8" is more common.
2) the Extreme reflex in the riser, makes it a bit more difficult than many other Mathews bows as well-if you have the typical problem of torquing a Mathews grip, it's really going to be an issue on the Reezen.
3) Idler wheel lean is more critical as well. It needs to be dead nuts- most of the other Mathews bows are a bit more forgiving in this regard. A twist or two out on one side can cause havoc.
Being that even when centershot and idler lean is corerct your sight pins are going to be way off center (I've yet to see one that isn't), I'd say the bow may have some issues with horizontal nock travel. A Whisker biscuit would definitely help tame this.
I would say that a huge part of it is the combination of the two hi-lighted statements that Jeff made above.
I have had several Reezens that absolutely would not tune with a drop away rest no matter what we did to the bow and/or rest. Grab the grip and torque it hard to the right and they would shoot a good hole through paper but if you shot them with a relaxed open grip you would get about a 2" horizontal tear in paper.
Last edited by bigbulls; 08-29-2009 at 01:37 PM.
08-29-2009, 02:03 PM
#22
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
I have not done all of the measurements that Jeff has done but i would say this assessment is right on the money.
I would say that a huge part of it is the combination of the two hi-lighted statements that Jeff made above.
I have had several Reezens that absolutely would not tune with a drop away rest no matter what we did to the bow and/or rest. Grab the grip and torque it hard to the right and they would shoot a good hole through paper but if you shot them with a relaxed open grip you would get about a 2" horizontal tear in paper.
I would say that a huge part of it is the combination of the two hi-lighted statements that Jeff made above.
I have had several Reezens that absolutely would not tune with a drop away rest no matter what we did to the bow and/or rest. Grab the grip and torque it hard to the right and they would shoot a good hole through paper but if you shot them with a relaxed open grip you would get about a 2" horizontal tear in paper.
Did you ever try going to a really stiff arrow? Sometimes bows with bad nocktravel and or "speed" bows just need stiffer arrows than they "should".
These kinds of issues are yet another reason I have been a big fan of arrow rest that stay up longer.A whammy or limbdriver might also help these bows tune.
08-29-2009, 03:21 PM
#23
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
Did you ever try going to a really stiff arrow? Sometimes bows with bad nocktravel and or "speed" bows just need stiffer arrows than they "should".
The funny thing is that we can get a monster to tune just fine... Even with a Gold Tip 55/75 but the reezens are a PITA.
These kinds of issues are yet another reason I have been a big fan of arrow rest that stay up longer.A whammy or limbdriver might also help these bows tune.
08-29-2009, 05:43 PM
#24
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: CT, USA
Posts: 3,058
And double agreed-standard Monster and XLR8 tune up easy-no issues (though it def likes a stiff arrow)
08-29-2009, 06:12 PM
#25
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
A Reezen @ 70#'s and 30" actually requires a stiffer shaft than a .300.
Now add bad nock travel and a torquey grip,a .250 may be needed even at shorter draw lengths and lower poundages.
This is ASSUMING the bow actually reaches IBO specs which is doubtfull.
This is the biggest problem with most true speed bows today.Arrow manufactuers are going to have to start making more shafts for these true speed bows.
There are a few but how many shops actually carry them?
Now add bad nock travel and a torquey grip,a .250 may be needed even at shorter draw lengths and lower poundages.
This is ASSUMING the bow actually reaches IBO specs which is doubtfull.
This is the biggest problem with most true speed bows today.Arrow manufactuers are going to have to start making more shafts for these true speed bows.
There are a few but how many shops actually carry them?
08-29-2009, 06:22 PM
#26
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Where the ducks don't come no more
Posts: 4,420
It has been my experience over the years that any pro shop that has been in business more than 5 years will not produce crappy workmanship like Rob described in the orginial post. Otherwise they would have been run out on a rail inside of 3 years.
I don't know if you knew this guy or not, but in my experience here, quite often a customer will have monkeyed with a bow A LOT, and after toying with it to no avail, will bring it to another shop swearing up and down that they had it over at XYZ shop and they messed it all up. I guess it saves them face.
I do have a sign back by the press (hidden from public view) that reads: "ARCHERY PRO SHOP LABOR RATES: $60/HOUR.....$75/HOUR IF YOU WATCH.....$100/HOUR IF YOU HELP.... $150/HOUR IF YOU WORKED ON IT FIRST." Of course, this is meant as a joke.
I have personally seen this happen as well. I have a couple good friends who work regular jobs (one in the Navy, another a mechanic) that work over at Bass Pro in the archery department part time. They are both quite comepetent bow techs too and I'd recommend either of them to someone in a heartbeat..... and they recommend our shop to folks several times a day. Anyway, I brought one of them a new set of cams for his Hoyt he ordered and stopped by at BPS just to say hey. A guy came walking up with a newish looking 82nd Airborne and said, "I swear I'll never go to Wilcox again! They got my bow shooting all backwards. I just picked it up from there... cost me a mint.... shot it at the range and its shooting cork screws....." I held my tounge and looked the bow over. There are two main techs at our shop.... Tom... who is flat out amazing when it comes to bows.... and myself.... who ain't no slouch either. We do things exactly the same way, so that no matter which of us works on your bow... the look and quality is uniform. We tie knots and do things differently than any other shop I've ever seen.... I recognize my own work.... and considering 15 minutes prior I had been at the shop and never seen this guy or his bow before.... he was clearly full of what made the bull famous. My friend at BPS let him know as much before I asked him who he had spoken with at our shop.... he said he couldn't remember his name.... middle aged guy.... kinda tall... he said.... ... nobody like that works there...... Tom is 50 years old.... 5' 7" and bald.... and I'm 26... look like I'm 21 and I am tall. This dude, it turns out... hadn't ever hardly set foot in our place..... and yet here he was bad mouthing us..... don't know where his bow came from or who worked on it..... but it for sure wasn't who he claimed it was.
And if a Reezen and an Admiral shot the same weight arrow, at the same draw weight, and same draw length at the same speed.... either somebody or somebody's chronograph is woefully mistaking. The Admiral is the quietest, most shock free bow right out of the box I've ever shot... but it ain't no speed demon..... and its draw is stiffer than the Reezen's (thanks to its short limbs). Compared to most Mathews bows.... the Reezen is quite a departure from the norm.... and while it has grown on me a bit.... I'll still be carrying a Drenalin in the woods. Everybody has their own favorites.... and nobodys favorite is ever wrong.... variety......its the spice of life.
I don't know if you knew this guy or not, but in my experience here, quite often a customer will have monkeyed with a bow A LOT, and after toying with it to no avail, will bring it to another shop swearing up and down that they had it over at XYZ shop and they messed it all up. I guess it saves them face.
I do have a sign back by the press (hidden from public view) that reads: "ARCHERY PRO SHOP LABOR RATES: $60/HOUR.....$75/HOUR IF YOU WATCH.....$100/HOUR IF YOU HELP.... $150/HOUR IF YOU WORKED ON IT FIRST." Of course, this is meant as a joke.
I have personally seen this happen as well. I have a couple good friends who work regular jobs (one in the Navy, another a mechanic) that work over at Bass Pro in the archery department part time. They are both quite comepetent bow techs too and I'd recommend either of them to someone in a heartbeat..... and they recommend our shop to folks several times a day. Anyway, I brought one of them a new set of cams for his Hoyt he ordered and stopped by at BPS just to say hey. A guy came walking up with a newish looking 82nd Airborne and said, "I swear I'll never go to Wilcox again! They got my bow shooting all backwards. I just picked it up from there... cost me a mint.... shot it at the range and its shooting cork screws....." I held my tounge and looked the bow over. There are two main techs at our shop.... Tom... who is flat out amazing when it comes to bows.... and myself.... who ain't no slouch either. We do things exactly the same way, so that no matter which of us works on your bow... the look and quality is uniform. We tie knots and do things differently than any other shop I've ever seen.... I recognize my own work.... and considering 15 minutes prior I had been at the shop and never seen this guy or his bow before.... he was clearly full of what made the bull famous. My friend at BPS let him know as much before I asked him who he had spoken with at our shop.... he said he couldn't remember his name.... middle aged guy.... kinda tall... he said.... ... nobody like that works there...... Tom is 50 years old.... 5' 7" and bald.... and I'm 26... look like I'm 21 and I am tall. This dude, it turns out... hadn't ever hardly set foot in our place..... and yet here he was bad mouthing us..... don't know where his bow came from or who worked on it..... but it for sure wasn't who he claimed it was.
And if a Reezen and an Admiral shot the same weight arrow, at the same draw weight, and same draw length at the same speed.... either somebody or somebody's chronograph is woefully mistaking. The Admiral is the quietest, most shock free bow right out of the box I've ever shot... but it ain't no speed demon..... and its draw is stiffer than the Reezen's (thanks to its short limbs). Compared to most Mathews bows.... the Reezen is quite a departure from the norm.... and while it has grown on me a bit.... I'll still be carrying a Drenalin in the woods. Everybody has their own favorites.... and nobodys favorite is ever wrong.... variety......its the spice of life.
08-29-2009, 07:00 PM
#27
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
There are a few but how many shops actually carry them?
I know, I know it doesn't make any sense.... people spend $1200 on a bow set up and want to shoot cheap $40 arrows. They also don't want to buy the "fastest single cam" bow on the market and weigh it down with a super heavy carbon arrow. You know that the average "Joe hunter" knows everything.
Gold Tip makes the Big Game with a .280 spine. Any others?
"ARCHERY PRO SHOP LABOR RATES: $60/HOUR.....$75/HOUR IF YOU WATCH.....$100/HOUR IF YOU HELP.... $150/HOUR IF YOU WORKED ON IT FIRST."
08-29-2009, 08:03 PM
#28
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
Please do tell. I don't know of any that are actually in the "affordable" price range or that have a name that people recognize that would make it worth while for a general pro shop to stock.
I know, I know it doesn't make any sense.... people spend $1200 on a bow set up and want to shoot cheap $40 arrows. They also don't want to buy the "fastest single cam" bow on the market and weigh it down with a super heavy carbon arrow. You know that the average "Joe hunter" knows everything.
Gold Tip makes the Big Game with a .280 spine. Any others?
I like that.
I know, I know it doesn't make any sense.... people spend $1200 on a bow set up and want to shoot cheap $40 arrows. They also don't want to buy the "fastest single cam" bow on the market and weigh it down with a super heavy carbon arrow. You know that the average "Joe hunter" knows everything.
Gold Tip makes the Big Game with a .280 spine. Any others?
I like that.
I should mention a few aluminums are stiff enough but they are getting fewer and further between all the time.
That's why I stated it as a problem.General public wants speed,especially when buying a speed bow,but the arrows aren't built for them (atleast not for the long draw,heavy poundage guys)
Last edited by TFOX; 08-29-2009 at 08:09 PM.
08-29-2009, 08:59 PM
#29
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
And if a Reezen and an Admiral shot the same weight arrow, at the same draw weight, and same draw length at the same speed.... either somebody or somebody's chronograph is woefully mistaking. The Admiral is the quietest, most shock free bow right out of the box I've ever shot... but it ain't no speed demon..... and its draw is stiffer than the Reezen's (thanks to its short limbs). Compared to most Mathews bows.... the Reezen is quite a departure from the norm.... and while it has grown on me a bit.... I'll still be carrying a Drenalin in the woods. Everybody has their own favorites.... and nobodys favorite is ever wrong.... variety......its the spice of life.
It may very well be off but then it was off for both bows. Either his Reezen was a dud or my Admiral is exceptional. 
I was quite surprised. Thus my shock and wondering. I assumed the Reezen was faster, probably is but not that one. 
My chrono matches what most others say they get from their bows and what my birth certs say when my bows come in. It's a phenomenon. LOL
08-29-2009, 09:17 PM
#30
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: York,Pa
Posts: 2,645
Same chrono for both bows Swampie, It may very well be off but then it was off for both bows. Either his Reezen was a dud or my Admiral is exceptional. I was quite surprised. Thus my shock and wondering. I assumed the Reezen was faster, probably is but not that one.
My chrono matches what most others say they get from their bows and what my birth certs say when my bows come in. It's a phenomenon. LOL
It may very well be off but then it was off for both bows. Either his Reezen was a dud or my Admiral is exceptional. I was quite surprised. Thus my shock and wondering. I assumed the Reezen was faster, probably is but not that one. My chrono matches what most others say they get from their bows and what my birth certs say when my bows come in. It's a phenomenon. LOL