don loch

Thanks for the info guys, it goes to prove you " can" teach an old dog new things .Its nice to be corrected without any sarcasim, did I say that?[&:]


I also agree that a long draw length does not belong on a small bow (axil to axil) I had one on a renegade and it shot very inconsistant, some days it felt good other days the bow took a flight across the back yard.[:' (][:@][>:][X(]

I since went to a bow 4 in. longer, I am pretty sure it helped, I shoot often and the bow hasent grown wings yet, I am pretty sure I like it.

Again thanks for info and being set on the right info. path.

TFOX

Len,I posted the almost exact thing you did in regards to Voz and don yesterday but for some reason it didn' t accept it.I' m glad you were able to post it.[&:]


don,your misconception or the misconception of the ones that informed you are really a pretty honest mistake.How many 34" draw length bows have you seen with a 6" brace heigth? Not many. These bows would be almost impossible to shoot and they would be WAY to critical for the average shooter. So manufactures don' t even make them.Therefore when looking for a real long draw bow they will most likely have a long brace also.

Hobbes

OK, maybe it' s too late for me to be trying to make any sense out of what all has been wrote, but it seems the comments have jumped all over the place. If it is too late for me to read it is probably too late for me to comment, but here goes.

The brace height is measured from the " Throat" of the grip to the string at rest. The power stroke is measured from the string at rest to the string at full draw. Your draw length is measured from 1 3/4" in front of the " throat" of the grip to the string at full draw. If your brace height is 7" and your draw length 30" , then your power stroke is 21 1/4" .
If that brace height is decreased by 1" , your draw length remains 30" but the power stroke has just increased by 1" . When a manufacturer chooses to build a reflexed riser it is in order to decrease the brace height which in turn increases the power stroke. This increase in power stroke increases speed, approx. 10-12 fps/ inch of power stroke. The longer the power stroke or shorter the brace height, one in the same, the more time the arrow is on the string. Therefore, the speed increases due to more transfer of energy to the arrow and there is more likelyhood of error on the shooters part because of this extended time on the string.
The newer bows with the parallel limb designs do use a reflexed riser to increase power stroke. Due to the parallel design the brace height would be increased dramatically and the power stroke decreased yielding a slower arrow. This would mean a more stable bow, but their intent was to design a fast shooting bow that had a minimal amount of vibration and in so doing they have incorporated a parallel limb design to reduce vibration and increase stability and at the same time reflexed the riser to maintain the speed that most shooters seem to demand.

voz

So it sounds like the small bows I' ve been interested in .....are not going to be a good fit for me...right? So here' s the question......what would be a good lightweight, semi quick bow...that would be a good fit? My draw length is 30" , and I' ll be shooting it at 70lbs. I don' t 3d shoot, just deer hunt. Since everything I' ve looked at is small, I just wanted some ideas on what to look at next. Thanks all of you for the help.

PABowhntr

Voz,

To be honest with you, I think something in the 34-36 inch axle to axle length range would probably suit you pretty nicely. These bows are relatively short enough to be considered compact and maneuverable and yet long enough to add some stability to your setup. (Now that is coming from a guy that shoots a 31 inch draw length out of a 31 inch axle to axle length bow ). I will readily admit that the slightly longer axle to axle length bows definitely add something to the overall stability of the setup.

As with everything there are extremes and " middle ground" . Bows that are 32 inches and under in axle to axle length and/or bows that are 40 inches and over in axle to axle length are what I consider " extreme" ends of the spectrum nowadays..in reference to hunting that is. Choosing a bow in the mid-range between those two figures should give you the somewhat of the best of both worlds.

Ofcourse, axle to axle length alone is not the " be all, end all" to determining stability or forgiveness. There are many factors that must be considered before making that determination. Just about every major bow manufacturer has a few bows that should fit into these specs. I am sure you will get plenty of suggestions along those lines.

Hobbes,

Pretty darn good post.

I hope you do not mind if I clarify something. One misconception regarding powerstroke and brace height....

...actually, it is more so the amount or length of distance that the arrow is on the string that causes the increased energy transfer and the likelihood of shooter error affecting accuracy.

I thought much the same as you up until a discussion a year or two back in which the issue was discussed in detail. Think about it. As the brace height is increased then the speed of the arrow is increased. As the speed of the arrow is increased then the faster it comes off the string. What I am basically suggesting is that the increased length of power stroke increases the arrow' s speed off of the string but, since the powerstroke is longer the arrow still has to travel a longer distance so, in essence time is not really the factor that the physical distance is.

Though I do not have the math to support this on this post I hope Vic (500 fps) gets wind of it and can comment further as I believe it was him that originally posted this info.

don loch

Wow, I' m impressed, and still learning, [&:]I' m going to sound like a gull darn genious next time I am with my hunting buds[:-].......... although they probably wont understand a thing I' m saying.[8D]

Len in Maryland

Hobbes:

Quote:

If your brace height is 7" and your draw length 30" , then your power stroke is 21 1/4" .
If that brace height is decreased by 1" , your draw length remains 30" ...

It is not quite that simple to just decrease or increase the brace height and let everything remain the same. In order to change the BH on any given bow, several things have to be changed. They would include changing the limb length, changing the limb deflection (which would change a lot of other things), changing cam design, and even possibly changing the riser design. Therefore, it real isn' t that simple to make judgements until all the above design changes are considered.

The powerstroke analysis can be considered on various bows; but, you can' t just change the brace height to that degree without design changes. When looking at the quote above, by changing the brace height by 1" , you can and will change the draw length, given the existing riser location/design; but, other things will have to change as noted in the previous paragraph.

Hobbes

Pabowhunter,
you are correct, my description was a little off.

PABowhntr

hobbes,

I was not trying to be picky so I do hope that you did not take my last post in that manner. That particular issue is a misconception that we all have made at one time or another.

Len was also correct about not being able to change the brace height without changing anything else on the bow. For the sake of a theoretical argument I think your example could be used but, as illustrated, there are other design factors that need to be considered.

T-23

The higher the brace hight the more forgivingyour bow will be and thats what you want. If its shorter, than you will have a faster bow but it wont be that forgiving. Generally a good brace height is around 7-7 1/2 inches.