? about 3D shoots
05-12-2003, 09:06 PM
#32
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Stanton PA USA
Posts: 2,213
RE: ? about 3D shoots
Arthur P, I know the type of shooters you are talking about. I have seen them many times myself.
That doesn`t mean that all slider sight shooters act that way. In fact, the group of 10-15 guys I shoot with at local shoots have more fun than is legal in most states!
We carry on as much as trad shooters do. We always allow faster groups to shoot through. We pick on each other constantly, right up to the 5 seconds before the shot goes off.
And several of the guys are very well known in the highest classes nationally. Matter of fact, one of them just won a little shoot in Atlantic City last week.
So everyone does not have that snobby attitude.
I imagine you already tried this at your club, but at our club, we made a comp. class years ago, to keep the same few guys from winning the trophy every shoot.
We just compete against ourselves for a little cash, and leave the trophy`s for the guys and gals who appreciate them.
It is only human nature to try to excel in something you are good at. That is why some prefer to use the best technology available.
That doesn`t mean that all slider sight shooters act that way. In fact, the group of 10-15 guys I shoot with at local shoots have more fun than is legal in most states!
We carry on as much as trad shooters do. We always allow faster groups to shoot through. We pick on each other constantly, right up to the 5 seconds before the shot goes off.
And several of the guys are very well known in the highest classes nationally. Matter of fact, one of them just won a little shoot in Atlantic City last week.
So everyone does not have that snobby attitude.
I imagine you already tried this at your club, but at our club, we made a comp. class years ago, to keep the same few guys from winning the trophy every shoot.
We just compete against ourselves for a little cash, and leave the trophy`s for the guys and gals who appreciate them.
It is only human nature to try to excel in something you are good at. That is why some prefer to use the best technology available.
05-13-2003, 09:48 AM
#33
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: ? about 3D shoots
TFOX, didn' t you read my post earlier? I' ve been a club officer for a LONG time. Surely you don' t think you' re telling me anything about complaints that I' m not already intimately acquainted with? I get to catch it all, from trads that don' t like wide open shots to open classers that don' t like a single weed blowing around in front of the x-ring. And everything in between. But I don' t use it as an excuse to quit.
Big Country, you know, trads and bowhunter classes get along very well at tournaments. There was NEVER the kind of problems we have now back when 3D first got started, when trad and bowhunter were the only two types of equipment on the field. The prizes aren' t the issue. The issue is one group of shooters that are sucking all the fun out of shooting for the majority of the other shooters.
You wouldn' t believe the number of trads that say they will never go to another tournament where compounds are being used. You wouldn' t believe the number of bowhunters that refuse to shoot tournaments any more. All because of the open class.
In my opinion, there should be bowhunter tournaments, without the open class, and there should be open tournaments. The guys that don' t mind shooting on the same field with the open class can go to the open tournaments and those that hate it can go to the bowhunter shoots. It would be interesting, at least, to see which type gets more participation.
Big Country, you know, trads and bowhunter classes get along very well at tournaments. There was NEVER the kind of problems we have now back when 3D first got started, when trad and bowhunter were the only two types of equipment on the field. The prizes aren' t the issue. The issue is one group of shooters that are sucking all the fun out of shooting for the majority of the other shooters.
You wouldn' t believe the number of trads that say they will never go to another tournament where compounds are being used. You wouldn' t believe the number of bowhunters that refuse to shoot tournaments any more. All because of the open class.
In my opinion, there should be bowhunter tournaments, without the open class, and there should be open tournaments. The guys that don' t mind shooting on the same field with the open class can go to the open tournaments and those that hate it can go to the bowhunter shoots. It would be interesting, at least, to see which type gets more participation.
05-13-2003, 11:17 AM
#34
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: ? about 3D shoots
I was refering to personal attacks because of eqipment and anytime I set a stake or target is because of my shooting style.This was from the people that I am helping.I don' t need that.
CAN' T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!!!!!![8D]
CAN' T WE ALL JUST GET ALONG!!!!!![8D]
05-13-2003, 11:41 AM
#35
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
RE: ? about 3D shoots
Nothing new there! Since I shoot both compound and trad, I' ve had compound guys bust on me for setting targets like a trad. I' ve had trads bust on me for setting targets like a compounder. To me, trads set stakes too close and compounders set ' em too wide open. Bottom line is, if I' m setting targets, I SET ' EM THE WAY I WANT TO. Anybody that doesn' t like the way I set the targets is welcome to do their thing the next time, as long as they understand the course has to be safe.
Funny thing is, they would b*tch and raise Cain, but at the end of the day they always said they enjoyed the layout. Go figure.
Besides, they know if they really ticked me off I' d set the whole range with rock critters. With thick grass behind. And drive rebar down the center of each target.
Funny thing is, they would b*tch and raise Cain, but at the end of the day they always said they enjoyed the layout. Go figure.
Besides, they know if they really ticked me off I' d set the whole range with rock critters. With thick grass behind. And drive rebar down the center of each target.
05-13-2003, 11:58 AM
#36
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Memphis TN USA
Posts: 3,445
RE: ? about 3D shoots
Arthur it sounds to me like the people in your archery club all need to grow up and quit acting childish.(on both sides of the fence) If anyone quits shooting tournaments because someone else doesn' t shoot the same kind of equipment that they do, well not only are they but pathetic but everyone involved would probably be better off if they did quit. It is called live and let live. Just because someone doesn' t do things the way that the other person does them, doesn' t mean the other person is wrong.
It truely is sad that " adults" can be so petty.
That is not prejudice talking, my friend. That' s sad experience.
05-13-2003, 06:06 PM
#38
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: New Stanton PA USA
Posts: 2,213
RE: ? about 3D shoots
Arthur P, I was going to cut and paste, so I could address each of your comments, but I will just try to ramble them all together.
I too have been the club president at our club for pushing 15 years now, and have set up almost every 3-d in that time.(many of them by myself)
That said, I have seen the exact same thing you have.
Bow hunters shoot nearly as fast as traditional shooters. They mix well.
Nobody mixes well with open/comp. class for two reasons.
You will agree with one of them, and might agree with the other.
1. Open shooters, even if they are super nice and friendly, just take a long time to shoot.
2. Not many people like to see firsthand just how inferior their shooting is to accomplished shooters.
I have asked many of my friends who only shoot bowhunter pegs what jerks them the worst about the comp. class, other than the holdup.
The # 1 answer.....it is embarrassing to walk 10-15 yards past the comp. pegs and STILL take a whooping.
Granted, they are not competing against the other class, but the scores are still posted.
You are right, it does provide better turnouts when open class is on their own days.
Unfortunately, it is not a profitable thing to have open only shoots on a regular basis as there are not enough shooters to make it worthwhile setting targets.
We have trad only shoots, they work out fine.
But you know what works best for us? Several of our top open class shooters now shoot stickbows several times a year. We went out and made friends with the trad guys, now they come to our regular shoots.
You probably won`t ever make everyone happy at the same time, but we keep trying.
Financially, it would be best to just drop the comp. class altogether.
And, as soon as someone comes to our club and wants to do what I have been doing for the last 15 years, they can have at it. Until then, I still like to take my high tec stuff out first. Then wind down with the recurve.
I too have been the club president at our club for pushing 15 years now, and have set up almost every 3-d in that time.(many of them by myself)
That said, I have seen the exact same thing you have.
Bow hunters shoot nearly as fast as traditional shooters. They mix well.
Nobody mixes well with open/comp. class for two reasons.
You will agree with one of them, and might agree with the other.
1. Open shooters, even if they are super nice and friendly, just take a long time to shoot.
2. Not many people like to see firsthand just how inferior their shooting is to accomplished shooters.
I have asked many of my friends who only shoot bowhunter pegs what jerks them the worst about the comp. class, other than the holdup.
The # 1 answer.....it is embarrassing to walk 10-15 yards past the comp. pegs and STILL take a whooping.
Granted, they are not competing against the other class, but the scores are still posted.
You are right, it does provide better turnouts when open class is on their own days.
Unfortunately, it is not a profitable thing to have open only shoots on a regular basis as there are not enough shooters to make it worthwhile setting targets.
We have trad only shoots, they work out fine.
But you know what works best for us? Several of our top open class shooters now shoot stickbows several times a year. We went out and made friends with the trad guys, now they come to our regular shoots.
You probably won`t ever make everyone happy at the same time, but we keep trying.
Financially, it would be best to just drop the comp. class altogether.
And, as soon as someone comes to our club and wants to do what I have been doing for the last 15 years, they can have at it. Until then, I still like to take my high tec stuff out first. Then wind down with the recurve.
05-13-2003, 06:57 PM
#39
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: In Teh Garage (Rossville, GA USA)
Posts: 1,161
RE: ? about 3D shoots
My 3D bow is set up for more speed and less Ke My hunting rig is just the oposite
I want more speed for a flatter trajectory at greater distances and less ke so the arrow dont sink all the way to the fletching in the target.
I dont need the speed in hunting situwations because I will only take shots no more than 30 yards away so speed is not as mutch of an issue hunting as it is in 3D comp. I shoot 3d to have fun but I also shoot to win!
I want more speed for a flatter trajectory at greater distances and less ke so the arrow dont sink all the way to the fletching in the target.
I dont need the speed in hunting situwations because I will only take shots no more than 30 yards away so speed is not as mutch of an issue hunting as it is in 3D comp. I shoot 3d to have fun but I also shoot to win!
05-13-2003, 07:33 PM
#40
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: HENDERSON KY USA
Posts: 6,634
RE: ? about 3D shoots
Big Country,I was going to back out of this thread but I like what you said and there is a lot of truth.
#1,yes we take longer.It isn' t because we are trying to hold anyone up(most let people through and in turn increase their shoot time).It just takes longer to TRY and judge a target within 1 yard and then set the sight.Then TRY and hold on a SPOT and not just an area and then hit it.We just enjoy doing it this way.
#2, you are going to get it for this one.Not all open shooters are better but there are enough that are better to make it hard for some to shoot with them.You always here the same complaint,well look what you are shooting if I had that I could do it too but I want to practice for hunting and this is supposed to be for hunting setups..Sorry but the slide bar will make it tougher at first.There will be many things that will need to be improved FOR MOST to step up to the slide bars.First is definately yardage judging.You can' t just throw the bow up after saying it is ABOUT 35 yards.Is it 35 , 34 or is it 36.There is a huge difference with a slide bar.NO GAPPING HERE. Second is that the max distance and average distance will increase by about 10 yards.This again increases time.Longer shots mean greater concentration.Thirdly,when you extend a sight that far, the movement is magnified and also your pin gap increases.
I just wanted to add these things so maybe a few could understand instead of critisizing.If anyone takes this as an I' m better than you post.I am sorry and that is not the intent.I don' t think I am better than anyone.Just different.
#1,yes we take longer.It isn' t because we are trying to hold anyone up(most let people through and in turn increase their shoot time).It just takes longer to TRY and judge a target within 1 yard and then set the sight.Then TRY and hold on a SPOT and not just an area and then hit it.We just enjoy doing it this way.
#2, you are going to get it for this one.Not all open shooters are better but there are enough that are better to make it hard for some to shoot with them.You always here the same complaint,well look what you are shooting if I had that I could do it too but I want to practice for hunting and this is supposed to be for hunting setups..Sorry but the slide bar will make it tougher at first.There will be many things that will need to be improved FOR MOST to step up to the slide bars.First is definately yardage judging.You can' t just throw the bow up after saying it is ABOUT 35 yards.Is it 35 , 34 or is it 36.There is a huge difference with a slide bar.NO GAPPING HERE. Second is that the max distance and average distance will increase by about 10 yards.This again increases time.Longer shots mean greater concentration.Thirdly,when you extend a sight that far, the movement is magnified and also your pin gap increases.
I just wanted to add these things so maybe a few could understand instead of critisizing.If anyone takes this as an I' m better than you post.I am sorry and that is not the intent.I don' t think I am better than anyone.Just different.