pdq 5oh

I feel the same as Matt. When I go to a 3D, I like to shoot my 3D rig. I have goals & push myself towards them. I find the yardage estimation to be much more critical when using a moveable pin and shooting from the green stakes. When I want to practice with my hunting bow I shoot out back, or go stump shooting. I also shoot my hunting bow at a few 3Ds. When competition is involved, some people want to give themselves every chance to do well. Obviously some of the equipment used for 3D is not suitable for hunting. But I have yet to see where shooting a bow, any bow, will do nothing but improve your shooting.

AK

IMO, It' s because (sadly), it' s been transformed from a free-spirited game of personal hunting practice to one of numbers and competition. I remember a time before 3-D when " animal" leagues were big. I remember only one guy in the league who used a target bow. The rest used their hunting bows and viewed the " score" as something secondary to enjoyable good hunting practice. Shots were usually set in realisic hunting form...over logs, between trees, through a hole in brush. Now the reverse seems true.

I, at least, still go to 3-D' s strictly for fun and try to do my best with what I hunt with; heavy bow, heavy arrows, and all. I seldom score anymore, avoid anything advertised as IBO or competion like the plague, and since many shots are now set up along what can almost be described as fairways, I often deviate from the stake locations to pick my own shots from behind stumps, over logs, and through tight cover. The target bow guys don' t bother me though. I feel sorry for them sometimes when I see them huffing over the hills with a folding chair and waist belt full of doo-dads.

I' m not knocking target archery, mind you. I did that for several years, and had a fling with a decked out target bow once. I even one a state archery shoot in my class one year, but became burned out on archery as (for me) the fun was gone. Target archery has it' s place, but I do wish 3-D courses were set up more by and for the " hunter" crowd.

Arthur P

TFOX, AK put most of it into words better than I could, and worded it a helluvalot more graciously than I would have.

But I have to take extreme exception to your statement that the open class isn' t hurting anyone. I' ve seen it. I' ve been a victim of it myself. Believe it or not, it gets darned HOT down here in Texas in the summer. Especially around 3-4 o' clock. Used to be, and still is for all-trad shoots, we' d have the shoot over and done with by around 1 in the afternoon. Not any more! Now we' ve got the open class and they like to go slow so EVERYBODY gets to go slow. Apparently they don' t give a flying flip about people having heat stroke and heat exhaustion in the backup behind them. And if you tell them to speed up, you get self-righteous indignation and a full and complete reading and in depth analysis of the two minute rule.

I' ve had to quit going to mixed shoots in the summer because I' ve had heat exhaustion 3 times in the past 3 years during tournaments that have run well into the late afternoon. But, they' ve got their little rule and you can' t force them to speed up as long as the stop watch says they' re legal. No matter if people are being carted off the range in ambulances behind them.

But it' s not their fault. It never is. It' s everybody else! Everybody is wrong but them! They remind me a lot of little old ladies putting down the freeway at 25 miles an hour. Cars skidding all around them, tires screaching and they' re sitting there wondering why everybody else is going so fast.

bigbulls

Well this turned into a heated discussion! I don' t shoot 3D or indoot tournaments but the 3D tournaments that I have seen are so far from being realistic now that you might as well be standing at a line shooting in the air conditioning. I mean they have nice open paths from the shooting line all the way to the targets.

I always thought that 3D tournaments were suppose to be for honing your hunting skills with your hunting bow. To me there is nothing close to hunting when you are carying a pretty target quiver with the lightest, fastest arrows possible, a glitterd cherry colored bow with a four foot stabilizer shooting off in three directions and a sight that extends a foot or more in front of the bow. Just doesn' t make any sence to me.

TFOX

So by that logic when I take 4-5 kids under the age of 9 with me and it takes us 4 hours to shoot that it is our fault that you had a heat stroke.Come on and give me a break.If they aren' t letting you shoot thru then they are a##oles.Show up and shoot when they open the gates and take plenty of water.That should get you out of there by 10-11.


It wouldn' t take us anywhere near 4 hours when I shoot with the kids but letting people through will slow you WAY down and then when we get back and they see it took 4 hours they just can' t understand.

Just sounds like bitterness to me.

Arthur P

TFOX, We' re talking about the open class, not your kids. And I' ve never seen a group of kids take 4-5 hours to go around a course anyway, unless they' re open class trainees or maybe you' re just abnormally bad at finding arrows in the grass. I' ve guided my share of kids around the course before, including state, national and world field archery champions in their age group.

And before you go getting insulted, remember that it was you that insisted on my answer.

TFOX

I' m not insulted.

Take a 4,6,8,9 year old kids and you shoot also.Take a break half way and shoot 40 targets.

Took 4 hours.I know,it was my fault because I was using a slide bar.[&o]


I did shoot 382(no 11' s) though.Not bad considering the circumstances.I was exausted at #35 and had 3, 8' s on the last 5 targets.The kids had a great time and so did I.What was interesting was they enjoyed watching me shoot almost as much as I enjoyed watching them shoot.


What was amazing was everyone of those little guys and gals shot every target.


And yes,we looked like a bunch of traditional shooters out there looking for arrowsJUST KIDDING

pdq 5oh

AK & bigbulls, I don' t know where you guys shoot, but here in Ohio I haven' t seen the conditions you mention. Targets down in ravines, with stakes on the side. Small saplings sticking up in the lane to contend with. Deceiving angles & terrain. Yes some targets are pretty open shots. Ever have a clear lane to shoot at game, from your stand?

Like TFOX I take my 7 yr old son. We can take a while to get around a course. He needs to dawdle & play around. We let faster groups through & go through slower ones (that' s rare). For me, it' s about letting my son have fun. But I like to shoot, too. I can afford it so I have a 3D bow. There are people shooting hunting setups that I' ll never beat. I shoot what I like & others do as they please. Certainly shooting my 3D bow has no ill affect on shooting my hunting bow.

jetblast

I do take my " hunting rig" to 3D shoots. I have only one bow and that is a Bowtech Patriot. The only difference between the setup is I use carbons for 3D and alums for hunting. I use the same release, sight, stabilizer, and bow set at 60#' s all year long. Oh, and can place at several local shoots. So, to each his/her own. It' s fun beating several scope shooters with " hunting" stuff!

Arthur P

Oh! Wellll.... FORTY targets and the ol' fart shot his target bow too...that explains it.

Yeah, trads look for arrows a lot but, by golly, they know when to quit looking and move on. Of course, cedar arrows don' t cost $15 apiece like some of you guys spend.

But you know, I reckon I am sorta bitter. Our club never changed our rules to cater to the open class like everyone else did. We still disallowed binoculars until this season. If nobody has binoculars, then everyone' s on an equal footing. Right? Well, a couple years ago I remember a few sightbar dancers showing up at our shoot, toting their umbrellas, binocs and stuff. They got mucho upset when we told them they couldn' t take the umbrellas and binocs onto the range. They loudly gave us their opinion of our rules and they left. We darn sure didn' t chase them down and beg forgiveness. Well, we noticed a decline in our turnouts after that. Turns out that ever since that day, those jerks have been flapping their lying yaps at shoots all around the area, telling everyone how they were kicked out, how bad we are and telling everybody to forget shooting our range.

We' ve been discussing the idea of becoming an all traditional club, since that' s the only people that will come to one of our shoots. Now that we understand WHY things have been going like they have, it' s probably going to be a much easier decision to make. It doesn' t matter if you' ve got a thousand guys praising your club, as long as there is one guy out there badmouthing it, the bad is what' s going to be remembered. And when that bad is an outright lie...

But of course, the open class comeback will be that the entire situation is OUR fault, and we should have convened an emergency meeting right there on the spot and changed our rules for the benefit of a few self important open class shooters who wanted to use ALL their toys for a stinkin' little club shoot..

PHHHBBBBBBTTTT!!!

When you boil everything down and get right to the bottom of the pot, that' s the real reason I' m out for blood on these open class bozo' s. They' re at EVERY shoot, even the small club fun shoots, acting like they' re at the IBO Worlds and winning is a life or death proposition. At a tournament that means something, I have no problem with whatever it takes for competition. But at a local fun shoot where you' re trying to introduce new shooters to the sport and you have people wanting to get out and have a few hours of shooting and socializing, that crap has got to cease. I' ve never seen a single one of those guys act like he was having fun at a shoot. Hardly ever a smile. NEVER a chuckle. If you even scratch your butt around them, you darn sure better do it QUIETELY. I can' t stand to be around them.

The women I' ve talked to hate them. We had a family day once at my old club. A FAMILY DAY. You' d expect kids at a FAMILY day, wouldn' t you? Wouldn' t you be making at least a few considerations on your game plan to the nature of the event? One lady, who' d been dressed down by one of the open classers about her kid asking her a question when he was at full draw, spoke to me. Couldn' t catch all of it because she was VERY upset, but through the tears and rage I did hear something about ' yanking off a stabilizer' , then some gibberish and then heard something about ' where the sun don' t shine.' You got any idea what she was talking about?