Good Scent Information
05-30-2009, 06:40 PM
#1
Fork Horn
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 349
Good Scent Information
Great post on SCENT:
"This is correct... there are other things that contribute to your "scent" but it is believed that all these hundred thousand skin cells, referred to as "rafts" we shed every minute (depending on whose number you use, but it's a lot) are cariers of your scent, and then continue to give off scent as bacteria work to break them down.
Below is from a research article by the FBI: "Human scent has been historically defined as a biological component of decomposing dead skin cells, also known as the skin raft theory (Syrotuck 1972). Scent-dog handlers have relied on this theory, but it has had no supporting scientific basis. Current research suggests that human odor is more complex. Human Skin Emanation Research for Mosquito Attractiveness. Research has been conducted to determine the components of human odor that is breathed out or is deposited by the skin, not for purposes of specialized canine use, but to identify a mosquito's attraction to human odor. In a study, test subjects transferred their odor by touch onto 2 to 25 2.9mm glass beads. On this small amount of surface area, 346 discernable peaks were detected by cryofocused gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer analyses. All but 43 component peaks were classified and identified (Bernier et al. 2000). "
If you really want to see how hard it is to truly get rid of this thing we call scent, read this article :
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backis...research03.htm
IMHO I think the moral of the story is you aint going to ever really get rid of all your scent . There is no way on earth that you will "eliminate" your scent, it aint gonna happen. Use common sense, do everything you can to keep your odor down, watch the wind, and do a lot of research before you spend big bucks on scent "elimination" products. Some things may help, but "elimination" is a claim none of them can back up." SMAXWELL
"Agreed, and I also believe that scent reduction is also overrated.
You could take every step and scent related precaution possible and the scent coming off your head and body are still plenty potent; more than enough to alert a game animal; that is if it actually gets a snootful. IMO, there are two very key factors that can shed some light on the misconceptions of detection through scent.
1st misconception: "animal was downwind and didn't smell me".
Most of the time you are right when you say that "the animal did not smell me", but you are wrong when it comes to why. Many guys are mistaken in their belief of animals being downwind of their position and not detecting them because they believe they were not giving off enough odor. Believe me you were giving off more than enough odor molecules to get detected by an animal that has a highly advanced sniffer. Because the animal was in the general direction of "downwind" does not necessarily mean that the scent stream you were giving off at the time was passing exactly into the animals nose. A scent stream will normally take many twists and turns as it snakes it's way meandering in the general direction of downwind. A lot of these animals that you "think" got a whiff of you, in reality did not.
2nd misconception: "He would have got out of there if I was giving off odor and he smelled it".
Lets say this time the meandering scent stream did actually pass into the nostrils of the animal. He will run right?; not necessarily. Mood is also a key factor that regulates behavior. There are times when animals will demonstrate a high level of tolerance to human presence and times when they will not. I know what your going to say next. The level or concentration of odor will be what determines the reaction of the animal that does actually smell your presence; right?; so reducing your overall odor footprint is very important, right?
Well, this may or may not be true. It sounds good that I took an odor neutralizing shower and did the same with my gear, but when you step out and get in the woods new odor molecules are being produced by your body and by the gazillions. These also smell real bad to a deer. The second you stepped out of the shower and started to get dressed your body was already in full blown skin shedding, pores gushing, massive scent production mode. The human body does not have to be working hard or sweating to produce mass quantities of odor; your body does so all by itself. You could be sitting in a chair and your pores are still churning it out big time; and here's the shocker for all you scent gurus out there: it also smells the same to a deer.
So I ask you: The guy who did the whole nine yards of scent "elimination" goes out there and sits in his stand. Do you really believe that the "new" odor coming off his head doesn't stink real bad if a deer actually does get a whiff of it? It does! The animals mood will be a key factor in how he reacts. The concentration of odor coming from this guys head is substantial; shower or not.
The foreign stimuli can be visual, audible, or odiferous, and some times the animals "see" you as an immediate threat, and some times they do not.
Many of you probably have had a similar story as I had. I had a doe come in and bed down by my stand once as I was about to come down. I wanted her out of there before I climbed down so I tried to alert her without spooking her too bad. First I started clanging my release against the metal stand, but she wouldn't budge. She heard me; looking up, but stayed bedded. Next I started waving my arms at her as she looked up. She saw me, but again would not flee. I had to climb down with her there, and it wasn't until I started walking towards her that she finally got up and ran.
The point is she knew I was there and that something was not right, but in this instance, she did not care very much; nor did she feel threatened. Why?; mood. There are also many times when they catch your scent but don't really react to it as a grave threat. Other times they are on alert and very wary of danger. When this is the case the slightest stimuli can set them off.
The point is: IMO the whole scent thing is a lot of hog wash. You give off a ton of odor no matter what you think you are doing to "eliminate" or reduce it. The new odor coming off your head can be perceived by an animal that actually gets a whiff of it, and who is in a mood of low tolerance, as a nuclear bomb" SKYHUNTER
"This is correct... there are other things that contribute to your "scent" but it is believed that all these hundred thousand skin cells, referred to as "rafts" we shed every minute (depending on whose number you use, but it's a lot) are cariers of your scent, and then continue to give off scent as bacteria work to break them down.
Below is from a research article by the FBI: "Human scent has been historically defined as a biological component of decomposing dead skin cells, also known as the skin raft theory (Syrotuck 1972). Scent-dog handlers have relied on this theory, but it has had no supporting scientific basis. Current research suggests that human odor is more complex. Human Skin Emanation Research for Mosquito Attractiveness. Research has been conducted to determine the components of human odor that is breathed out or is deposited by the skin, not for purposes of specialized canine use, but to identify a mosquito's attraction to human odor. In a study, test subjects transferred their odor by touch onto 2 to 25 2.9mm glass beads. On this small amount of surface area, 346 discernable peaks were detected by cryofocused gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer analyses. All but 43 component peaks were classified and identified (Bernier et al. 2000). "
If you really want to see how hard it is to truly get rid of this thing we call scent, read this article :
http://www.fbi.gov/hq/lab/fsc/backis...research03.htm
IMHO I think the moral of the story is you aint going to ever really get rid of all your scent . There is no way on earth that you will "eliminate" your scent, it aint gonna happen. Use common sense, do everything you can to keep your odor down, watch the wind, and do a lot of research before you spend big bucks on scent "elimination" products. Some things may help, but "elimination" is a claim none of them can back up." SMAXWELL
"Agreed, and I also believe that scent reduction is also overrated.
You could take every step and scent related precaution possible and the scent coming off your head and body are still plenty potent; more than enough to alert a game animal; that is if it actually gets a snootful. IMO, there are two very key factors that can shed some light on the misconceptions of detection through scent.
1st misconception: "animal was downwind and didn't smell me".
Most of the time you are right when you say that "the animal did not smell me", but you are wrong when it comes to why. Many guys are mistaken in their belief of animals being downwind of their position and not detecting them because they believe they were not giving off enough odor. Believe me you were giving off more than enough odor molecules to get detected by an animal that has a highly advanced sniffer. Because the animal was in the general direction of "downwind" does not necessarily mean that the scent stream you were giving off at the time was passing exactly into the animals nose. A scent stream will normally take many twists and turns as it snakes it's way meandering in the general direction of downwind. A lot of these animals that you "think" got a whiff of you, in reality did not.
2nd misconception: "He would have got out of there if I was giving off odor and he smelled it".
Lets say this time the meandering scent stream did actually pass into the nostrils of the animal. He will run right?; not necessarily. Mood is also a key factor that regulates behavior. There are times when animals will demonstrate a high level of tolerance to human presence and times when they will not. I know what your going to say next. The level or concentration of odor will be what determines the reaction of the animal that does actually smell your presence; right?; so reducing your overall odor footprint is very important, right?
Well, this may or may not be true. It sounds good that I took an odor neutralizing shower and did the same with my gear, but when you step out and get in the woods new odor molecules are being produced by your body and by the gazillions. These also smell real bad to a deer. The second you stepped out of the shower and started to get dressed your body was already in full blown skin shedding, pores gushing, massive scent production mode. The human body does not have to be working hard or sweating to produce mass quantities of odor; your body does so all by itself. You could be sitting in a chair and your pores are still churning it out big time; and here's the shocker for all you scent gurus out there: it also smells the same to a deer.
So I ask you: The guy who did the whole nine yards of scent "elimination" goes out there and sits in his stand. Do you really believe that the "new" odor coming off his head doesn't stink real bad if a deer actually does get a whiff of it? It does! The animals mood will be a key factor in how he reacts. The concentration of odor coming from this guys head is substantial; shower or not.
The foreign stimuli can be visual, audible, or odiferous, and some times the animals "see" you as an immediate threat, and some times they do not.
Many of you probably have had a similar story as I had. I had a doe come in and bed down by my stand once as I was about to come down. I wanted her out of there before I climbed down so I tried to alert her without spooking her too bad. First I started clanging my release against the metal stand, but she wouldn't budge. She heard me; looking up, but stayed bedded. Next I started waving my arms at her as she looked up. She saw me, but again would not flee. I had to climb down with her there, and it wasn't until I started walking towards her that she finally got up and ran.
The point is she knew I was there and that something was not right, but in this instance, she did not care very much; nor did she feel threatened. Why?; mood. There are also many times when they catch your scent but don't really react to it as a grave threat. Other times they are on alert and very wary of danger. When this is the case the slightest stimuli can set them off.
The point is: IMO the whole scent thing is a lot of hog wash. You give off a ton of odor no matter what you think you are doing to "eliminate" or reduce it. The new odor coming off your head can be perceived by an animal that actually gets a whiff of it, and who is in a mood of low tolerance, as a nuclear bomb" SKYHUNTER
05-31-2009, 08:21 AM
#2
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3
RE: Good Scent Information
You give up to easy. While I agree with most of this ,there will be new technology that will provide some insights and break throughs. You can reduce odors and change the dynamics. Example is that a company in Europe has developed a product through careful research that will reduce breath odors.
I agree you have to start with the head but it can be done.
Here's some additional research concerning "The Skin Cells We Shed " by Dr. Ken Goldstein:
He relates the following in a graph
This was given to me by a bloodhound handler)
Sitting Quitely = 100,000 cells minimum
Walking 2.0 MPH = 5 Million + cells
Walking 3.3 MPH = 7.5 Million + cells
I have been able to verify this information but came from a training program the handler attended.
So where do we go from here. Give up ? Or seek to find some additional ways to improve our odds.
I agree you have to start with the head but it can be done.
Here's some additional research concerning "The Skin Cells We Shed " by Dr. Ken Goldstein:
He relates the following in a graph
This was given to me by a bloodhound handler)Sitting Quitely = 100,000 cells minimum
Walking 2.0 MPH = 5 Million + cells
Walking 3.3 MPH = 7.5 Million + cells
I have been able to verify this information but came from a training program the handler attended.
So where do we go from here. Give up ? Or seek to find some additional ways to improve our odds.
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